Color Change - Exterior & Interior?

[bpossel]

Ok, I know that this may start a hornets nest, but would like to hear your thoughts....

As you know... I have changed the color on my car from light beige to light ivory.  Its not that light beige was ugly, but I just didn’t like it!  I also didn’t like the cognac interior.  

So...  why did I buy this car?  Because it was a car originally from Beverly Hills California and then ended up in Sedona, Arizona, which is where I bought it from…

I wanted a dry, rust free example, that didn’t need much body work.  Clearly what I found was an excellent example, but one that had sat for years….  So many maintenance items had not been done and thus the mechanics needed to be replaced to make it a reliable driver.

Oddly enough, when I bought the car, I drove it from Sedona to Memphis without any issues!  Again, it shows how well built these great cars are!

So…  after spending many hours cleaning and replacing many items on my car (thanks to all of your help on this site!), it looked pretty good (as you guys know that saw it in Blacklick at Joes and Mary’s place).

But….  I continually thought about how I always wanted a more classic look…  light ivory with a red interior…  now that is a color combo that does something to me.  It may be that this is so reminiscent of my childhood when my parents bought a new MB from the factory that was a white grey with red interior….  I just don’t know???

Anyway, I now am going the next step and replacing my interior…  I am going to go MB red (basket weave seats) with red sq weave carpet.  I really like this color combo!!!.  The more I look at a 2-tone 113 on the Motoring Investment site, the more I like it!  It’s the one that has the black hubs with the black top…..

So, what do you think?  Have I lost my marbles?  My 113 will be a Euro look with a total color change.  While I know that I will like it, what do you think the resale potential will be?  Does this really matter?

Comments, thoughts… ?

Thanks!
Bob


bpossel  (Memphis, TN.)
'71 280SL  /  '97 E320

[Else1969]

Just to to make things absolutely clear, are you making the external and internal changes for yourself or to sell the car? The answer to your questions most likely lies in this answer.
On the other hand, you may be placing an each way bet: "I do not intend to sell the car, but perhaps I might have to in the future". Others are more capable than myself of commenting on the potential value of the changes.

For what it's worth, I think your proposed colour combination sounds attractive to me and it would not deter me from purchasing it nor would it make me think it was of a lesser value, but I am not a dyed in the wool originalist whose car's each and every nut and bolt is origninal.

Dirk
1969 Signal Red 280 SL

[Ricardo]

Bob
I think with the obvious pleasure you are getting from your restoration and the unlikely chance that you will be looking to sell the car any time soon, then you should do what you want. No one will fault you for making these changes. You are using original colors and keeping the car as authentic as possible. Unless you start out telling people of the changes you've made, no one will be the wiser, why you could even get a new color code plate made for your car.
And as we have all heard before, you likely wouldn't recoup your investment anyway and the color change won't affect that much.
It will be beautiful and maybe just a little less common  
Ricardo

[doitwright]

Based on the way you posed the question, I think you already know the answer.  With all you have put into the car, why would you go with an interior you do not like?  I think you had MB Tex.  Now you can go leather.  It would seem fitting for a car with such a 1st class restoration effort.

BTW, I also have a light ivory and am changing from the original dark brown to cognac.  My top was painted Tobacco Brown but I admit , I do like the 2 tone with the Black very much.  I would consider changing also but already bought the interior and new brown soft top.

Frank Koronkiewicz
Willowbrook, Illinois

1970 280SL Light Ivory

[Peter van Es]

Bob,

having seen the restoration pictures... I like light ivory and red. Since you've done a complete body-off restoration, I don't think having different colours than the datacard says detracts more than 50% of the real value... if your car is for sale and I'm buying it.    If you sell it to someone else it probably detracts 0%...

So if you're selling, how much do you want for it ?

Peter

1970 280SL. Also known as 'admin@sl113.org' and organiser of the Technical Manual.

[bpossel]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for your reply and comments!
I guess I was feeling a bit guilty for such a major change off the data card with all of our posts on maintaining originality of these nice MBs.
Sorry, I am not selling her at this time.  Too much love and labor, and besides, I want to have some fun driving her after she is road worthy again.  Peter, when I do sell, I will think about your offer

Thank you!
Bob

bpossel  (Memphis, TN.)
'71 280SL  /  '97 E320

[Nate]

Bob,
After all the blood, sweat, and tears you've put into your car and the current restoration, whatever you do, put in a full leather interior, not MB Tex!  Light Ivory on Red leather will be a nice color combination.  Your other options are probably dark brown or black, neither of which do the light ivory much justice IMHO.

And don't forget to replace your dark brown soft top with a black one to complete it!

1971 280SL
Arabian Gray

[Mike Hughes]

I once saw a light ivory or off white 280SL with a dark red interior that was a rich wine color but not as dark as maroon.  It had a dark red hardtop and matching wheel covers and a dark red convertible top.  The whole combination was very elegant.

- Mike Hughes  -ô¿ô-
  1966 230SL Auto P/S
  Havanna Brown (408)
  Light Beige (181)
  Cream M-B Tex (121)

[JamesL]

ivory/red sounds lovely, esp a darker red. However, over here all the pricey restorations are seemingly ending up silver/red so personally I'd avoid the red. Perhaps that combo is the rosso corsa of w113s...

Personally, I'd think ivory/cognac stunning!

James Lester
RHD 280 in DB906 with cognac leather

[bpossel]

Thanks James, Mike, Nate for your comments.  All good and will take under consideration.

My local MBCA club had a technical session last Saturday at a local auto upholstery shop (run by a local family and has been in Memphis for years...).  We discussed MB leather vs MB Tex in great detail.  In general, here were our conclusions:

1. Both mb tex and mb leather look the same (except a slight color variation with some colors)
2. MB leather does smell better!
3. MB leather costs more!
4. MB leather, like other leathers, cracks after a few years.  Some call this patina, and can be minimized by proper leather care.
5. MB tex wears better, doesnt crack (again, proper maint)
6. Why buy mb leather and spend more $ over mb tex?
7. If just for smell, not sure its worth the extra $.
8. One can always put scraps of real leather under the seats to get that "leather smell".  Better yet, just buy some leather pants and take the smell with you wherever you go ...

Comments, thoughts?
Bob

bpossel  (Memphis, TN.)
'71 280SL  /  '97 E320

[JamesL]

Better yet

Get someone very cute in the passenger seat to wear the leather pants. I don't think Lederhosen count...

 

James Lester
RHD 280 in DB906 with cognac leather

[bpossel]

James, now that's a great idea!
Bob

quote:Originally posted by Tosh

Better yet

Get someone very cute in the passenger seat to wear the leather pants. I don't think Lederhosen count...

 

James Lester
RHD 280 in DB906 with cognac leather

bpossel  (Memphis, TN.)
'71 280SL  /  '97 E320

[J. Huber]

Hi Bob. Re: MB-tex vs Leather...

I can attest that the MB-tex stays looking like new for a long time with a minor amount of TLC. Mine's going on 11 years and I think still has a fresh look to it. And while some find the leather patina appealing and somehow enchanting -- I kinda dislike it.

Now having said that -- new leather does seem to be a "top-shelf" attribute and may command the higher premium for re-sale. And if we get into it deep enough, MB-tex takes on a second-rate quality in comparison. But remember it was Mercedes who came up with it -- not some knock-off imitation company out there. (and in my case it was what the car came with -- that may be a deciding factor as well)...




James
63 230SL

[hauser]

My only gripe about my leather seats is that they have developed a sheen and prefer that it had more of a flat look to it.

Is there a remedy for this?

1969 280sl 5 spd
Gainesville, Fl.

[66andBlue]

quote:Originally posted by bpossel

 ... Comments, thoughts?

Hi Bob,
having gone through these ruminations two years ago I do not quite agree with the listed preferences for MB-Tex.

In my view the biggest problem for MB-Tex is the plasticizer that was used to make it and that is also present in the foam layer underneath.  It cause light colored MB-Tex to yellow and become darker sometimes even turning brown. Just look at some steering wheel pads.  For you, that may be a smaller problem since you picked a red color.
Also I have seen quite a few Pagodas where the MB-Tex covering the lid for the soft top compartment and also along the A-pillar, that is, on the most sun-exposed areas had shrunk. Never seen leather do that.

MB-Tex and leather look the same?  Wow, I tried to use that argument with my wife and her only remark was “men are blind, every woman knows leather when she sees it”! [:0]
The owner of the shop where I bought my upholstery made a similar remark: “just look at the perforation holes in the seats and you know which one is leather”.

If the quoted price for MB-Tex is significantly less than leather, then watch out!  The really good material – leather or MB-Tex - should have been perforated at the factory since only MB has the original machines to do that (at least that is what I was told) and that costs money.  The labor costs to sow the seats and finish the door panels are the same but are probably more than the material costs, all of which shrinks the price difference that does exist between leather and MB-Tex.

Finally, is the MB-Tex that is sold today really the same that was used 40 years ago and that held up so well?  I may be wrong but I remember being told that MB doesn’t sell original MB-Tex any longer – but perhaps someone else can offer additional information on the source of current vinyl sold as “MB-Tex”.

Go with leather!  

Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic

[Peter van Es]

Bob, remember that deal? I'd like my future car to have leather.  

Peter

1970 280SL. Also known as 'admin@sl113.org' and organiser of the Technical Manual.

[bpossel]

Hello Peter!
I do  
If it's not too late to change my order....  it will be leather..
Bob

quote:Originally posted by vanesp

Bob, remember that deal? I'd like my future car to have leather.  

Peter

1970 280SL. Also known as 'admin@sl113.org' and organiser of the Technical Manual.

bpossel  (Memphis, TN.)
'71 280SL  /  '97 E320

[KevinC]

My interior job was challenging as no supplier seemed to carry many of the 230 SL colors any longer. I wanted to stay as close to the original "bronze-brown" MB Tex as I could. What a dilemma. Until an "oldtimer" told me that GAHH and others "make" MB Tex by running stock vinyl though a stamp which adds the Tex look. This would explain how new interior kits are available even though MB Tex is not sold any longer. I ended up with a Porsche brown color vinyl with the center stamped to look like MB Tex! See the attached photos, the piece on the ashtray is the original color.  

 

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This stated, you have plenty of options. GAHH did not even charge extra for the "custom" colored seat kits! Go with what makes you happy!

quote:Originally posted by 66andBlue

quote:Originally posted by bpossel

 ... Comments, thoughts?

Hi Bob,
having gone through these ruminations two years ago I do not quite agree with the listed preferences for MB-Tex.

In my view the biggest problem for MB-Tex is the plasticizer that was used to make it and that is also present in the foam layer underneath.  It cause light colored MB-Tex to yellow and become darker sometimes even turning brown. Just look at some steering wheel pads.  For you, that may be a smaller problem since you picked a red color.
Also I have seen quite a few Pagodas where the MB-Tex covering the lid for the soft top compartment and also along the A-pillar, that is, on the most sun-exposed areas had shrunk. Never seen leather do that.

MB-Tex and leather look the same?  Wow, I tried to use that argument with my wife and her only remark was “men are blind, every woman knows leather when she sees it”! [:0]
The owner of the shop where I bought my upholstery made a similar remark: “just look at the perforation holes in the seats and you know which one is leather”.

If the quoted price for MB-Tex is significantly less than leather, then watch out!  The really good material – leather or MB-Tex - should have been perforated at the factory since only MB has the original machines to do that (at least that is what I was told) and that costs money.  The labor costs to sow the seats and finish the door panels are the same but are probably more than the material costs, all of which shrinks the price difference that does exist between leather and MB-Tex.

Finally, is the MB-Tex that is sold today really the same that was used 40 years ago and that held up so well?  I may be wrong but I remember being told that MB doesn’t sell original MB-Tex any longer – but perhaps someone else can offer additional information on the source of current vinyl sold as “MB-Tex”.

Go with leather!  

Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic

Kevin Caputo
Hampden, MA
1967 230 SL Automatic
670 Light Ivory
113 Bronze/Brown MB Tex

[bpossel]

Hi Kevin,

Another great suggestion & option, thank you!
Your interior looks spectacular!
Bob

quote:Originally posted by KevinC

My interior job was challenging as no supplier seemed to carry many of the 230 SL colors any longer. I wanted to stay as close to the original "bronze-brown" MB Tex as I could. What a dilemma. Until an "oldtimer" told me that GAHH and others "make" MB Tex by running stock vinyl though a stamp which adds the Tex look. This would explain how new interior kits are available even though MB Tex is not sold any longer. I ended up with a Porsche brown color vinyl with the center stamped to look like MB Tex! See the attached photos, the piece on the ashtray is the original color.  

 

Download Attachment: PICT0339A.JPG
82.22 KB

Download Attachment: PICT0340A.JPG
64.86 KB

Download Attachment: PICT0337.JPG
22.41 KB

This stated, you have plenty of options. GAHH did not even charge extra for the "custom" colored seat kits! Go with what makes you happy!

quote:Originally posted by 66andBlue

quote:Originally posted by bpossel

 ... Comments, thoughts?

Hi Bob,
having gone through these ruminations two years ago I do not quite agree with the listed preferences for MB-Tex.

In my view the biggest problem for MB-Tex is the plasticizer that was used to make it and that is also present in the foam layer underneath.  It cause light colored MB-Tex to yellow and become darker sometimes even turning brown. Just look at some steering wheel pads.  For you, that may be a smaller problem since you picked a red color.
Also I have seen quite a few Pagodas where the MB-Tex covering the lid for the soft top compartment and also along the A-pillar, that is, on the most sun-exposed areas had shrunk. Never seen leather do that.

MB-Tex and leather look the same?  Wow, I tried to use that argument with my wife and her only remark was “men are blind, every woman knows leather when she sees it”! [:0]
The owner of the shop where I bought my upholstery made a similar remark: “just look at the perforation holes in the seats and you know which one is leather”.

If the quoted price for MB-Tex is significantly less than leather, then watch out!  The really good material – leather or MB-Tex - should have been perforated at the factory since only MB has the original machines to do that (at least that is what I was told) and that costs money.  The labor costs to sow the seats and finish the door panels are the same but are probably more than the material costs, all of which shrinks the price difference that does exist between leather and MB-Tex.

Finally, is the MB-Tex that is sold today really the same that was used 40 years ago and that held up so well?  I may be wrong but I remember being told that MB doesn’t sell original MB-Tex any longer – but perhaps someone else can offer additional information on the source of current vinyl sold as “MB-Tex”.

Go with leather!  

Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic

Kevin Caputo
Hampden, MA
1967 230 SL Automatic
670 Light Ivory
113 Bronze/Brown MB Tex

bpossel  (Memphis, TN.)
'71 280SL  /  '97 E320

[114015]

Bob,

Well, leather or vinyl...
Why don't you just stay with the the cognac vinyl in your car for a while and decide later? There is no need for a rush now.[:0]

As to leather ...
... it only makes sense if you go to as close to orignal Mercedes-Benz quality as possible, i.e. GAHH quality or better.
The texture must be correct (not too much, not too less), the color must be correct MB, not too glossy (like bacon speck) and especially not too flat, it's more of a semi-gloss which is original. The basket weave pattern is most important; I have seen lots of interiors which look close to correct but are actually not, and especially the quality of the sewing is very important for a good (perfect) result.
In Germany, where most pagodas have (converted to) leather nowadays, there are immense quality differences visible. Ed Cave's results were already quite correct ...

So, if you want to go for leather - search for the best one and not for a reasonable quote.
But basically the same is true for MB-Tex !
Well, I personally prefer leather in an SL.
Why? Because it's an SL and not a truck or taxi-cab.
The appearance of 30 years old but very well-cared for slightly patinated leather without damages is just overwhelming. Nothing can top that. That is the classic appearance and touch which most originality aficionados prefer.
Look at these cars next time on a car show with very-well cared interior! Mostly sedans and coupés are the better candidates.
Most impressive is the smell of old leather in a car. You can never achieve this with anything else, especially not with a leather jacket or pants or so. Perhaps with a special spray with the smell of leather ...
Unfortunatley even new leather smells (quite) different than this old plant ingredients-tanned leather of those days, strong, powerful but not moldy...

Leather makes (especially a top-end car) much more valuable, it's noble what vinyl never is.

Personally I like cognac leather (color 8006, interior code 250) much, it looks way ahead of cognac vinyl (ask how I know, but my 114015 knows!).

Just to make your personal decision harder ...

OK just my 2 cents ... or 3



Achim
(Magdeburg, Germany)

[Mike Hughes]

quote:Originally posted by 114015

(Arrgh ...
lots of typos in my answer ...

... I apologize)

There are five little icons to the right of the date and time at the top of your post.  The middle one looks like a little yellow pencil on lined paper.  Click on that icon and you can edit your post to correct typos.  I have to do it all the time due to not engaging brain before putting fingers in gear.  Once you have edited and submitted the text you will see a line at the bottom of your post that reads "Edited by..."

- Mike Hughes  -ô¿ô-
  1966 230SL Auto P/S
  Havanna Brown (408)
  Light Beige (181)
  Cream M-B Tex (121)