How does changing the original color affect resale value?

[Andres G]

Once again, here I am facing an interesting decision regarding which Pagoda to buy. I've followed most of the advise received from forum members, such as checking out as many cars for sale as possible, driving as many cars as I can get behind the wheels of and getting a subscription to SL Market Newsletter.

As I have explained in prior postings, I am planning on getting this car together with a friend of mine and since we've seen so many so far and most of them are not up to par, we decided to take a look at a higher end cars from reputable restorers. This is how we came across a really nice 180 silver/red car in an incredibly nice shape... the price ($59K) was close to double our original purchase budget ($30/35K) but we were willing to go with it to get a car we'd for sure enjoy. We went back and forth on the deal and we were minutes away from wiring the $5K deposit until we realized the original color of the car had been 834 green and it had been repainted/converted to 180 silver. This really turned us down, to the point that we backed away from the deal.

I now wonder what the opinion here is about changing the color of a car and if there is a concensus on this having any effect on the resale price of the vehicle. What do you think?

Thanks,
Andres G

[mdsalemi]

Hi Andres,

In a sense, you have answered your own question: in your case the color change was a deal killer...so indeed, it has affected the value.  Substantially might I add!

That being said, sit back and think about this for a moment.  Color is, frankly, simply paint.  Ignore the interior for a moment, and focus on painted metal.

How good is the paint, if original?  Has it been well preserved?  Have any parts of the car been repainted?
If a repaint job, how good is the respray?  Was it a complete job, or a partial job?
What would you rather have, original paint in mediocre condition, some cracking, fading (some call it "patina") etc. or a great paint job that is not original or original color?

Very often, you'll see the exterior resprayed, but the engine bay remains original...as does the dashboard.  This kind of thing would bother me, probably more so than a color that isn't my first choice.  How do you feel about that?

My own opinion, and mine alone is this: do things right.  There is nothing wrong with repainting a car, and nothing wrong inherently with changing the color to suit your needs, but it should be a good job.  Do everything, or don't change the color.  I don't care how perfect or Concours quality the outside of the paint is--if it is silver, I want to see EVERYTHING silver that is supposed to be silver.

Color preferences change over time, which is why 95% of new MB's are Silver, White or Black.  Painting a car is a major undertaking and often owners will create what they want if they are investing the money.  That's what I did--changed from 050 to 568.  But it was done completely--you will not find ANY 050 on the car anywhere (save for the unrestored hard top in my basement that nobody but Peter van Es will see)

Personally, I'd look for consistency, accuracy and quality of the paint rather than be very concerned with if the color was changed.  But that's from someone who did change their color...

[Mike Hughes]

I know that there will be differences of opinion here but my zwei pfennigs worth is that at this price, originality should be a factor.  As it happens "834 Green" a.k.a "Moss Green" is perhaps one of the more rare and sought after green shades on a Pagoda.  Repainting a car "resale silver" is O.K. for some just as is repainting a car "trophy winner red."  But there is no substitute for originality at the high end of the market.  That said, perhaps this is a $98k car that can only fetch $59k because of the color change!  ;^)  Now the real question is:  Did you and your friend see, drive, inspect the car thoroughly and find it otherwise satisfactory?  The follow up question is:  Did you and your friend consult with the seller and try to reach a mutually agreeable price, bearing in mind your reservations about the ultimate value of a non-original paint color?  And finally:  Are you and your friend in the market for an investment vehicle or a solid, mechanically trouble-free, and cosmetically superior vehicle to enjoy and use?

[MichaelB.]

Great replies.

I can tell you my perspective.

For me, I had a 1962 190SL that I bought & assumed it was the original shade of green (I had known the car for 20 years & it had always been that color). But when I found out months later (after purchase) that the car was originally a light blue (strictly by decoding the tag) I was a bit taken back by it. I sold the car shortly afterwards.

Now keep in mind that the green was done exceptionally well. And it looked appropriate on the car. But I knew that I would personally prefer the car to at least be the original hue so I parted ways with it (there were other reasons too... My wife hated the way the carbs stunk up the garage - and so did I).

So I went and bought the most original (non-carb) vintage SL I could find. No matter the price. Now I know this one is the original color.

[J. Huber]

... you will not find ANY 050 on the car anywhere (save for the unrestored hard top in my basement that nobody but Peter van Es will see)

Is he tied up down there or what? Do you let him see daylight once in awhile? 

[dseretakis]

A color change is a turn off for me on a mundane car like a 115 or 123.  I don't think I could swallow it on a 113.

[Richard Madison]

Original color is important to some but not to others.

A repaint in a different color may reduce the number of people who will bid on a car...but if a modest color is repainted bright red, maybe it will increase the interest. Difficult to say.

When I was looking, I passed on every car that was not the original color. Each of those cars had one fewer possible buyer and probably took a little longer to sell...not sure how a "new" color affects the price.

Richard M

[sjiatrou]

Maybe I missed it, but did the seller say why he repainted it? Damage? Rust? For me to part with $60K (+taxes, registration, etc. etc.)  EVERYTHING would need to be original and near perfect.  I'm sure you can find a great car in your original price range. 

[Peter van Es]

Is he tied up down there or what? Do you let him see daylight once in awhile? 

He only lets me play with this website once in a while....  :'(

Peter

[mdsalemi]

Is he tied up down there or what? Do you let him see daylight once in awhile? 

When Peter flies in to Detroit for PUB in July and road trips down in my 050 568 Pagoda, before we go I'll take him to the dungeon.  With torches out of the old Frankenstein movie, me and the villagers will lead Peter down the winding stone steps to the dank and dark basement.  There in the corner, he will see the old 050 hard top.  It's that old unrestored hard top that won't see the light of day...and certainly not my car!

[dseretakis]

Too bad because a pagoda looks a lot nicer with a hardtop on.  After all, that is how it got it's name.

[mdsalemi]

Too bad because a pagoda looks a lot nicer with a hardtop on.  After all, that is how it got it's name.

I think it looks better with no top at all, (nickname not withstanding) but agree that the hard top is better looking than the soft...

...after countless hours of professional labor; a lot of sublet labor, oodles of fondly remembered cash, and nearly 3 years--to hear that a hard top restoration (this is 8 years ago now) is an additional 100 hours plus parts costing $1,000...

I took it to the basement.

[Garry]

 Michael,

If I had known what I know now, my hard top would be in the dungeon also. I wish it was only 100 hours labor to do.!!!  The $1000 is right though but that does not include re-chroming.
Garry

[CraigD]

But of course not all of what we do to our cars is driven by economics.  We love these cars and sometime do it just because we like the look.  I would do my new color (black) hardtop again even though it may not pay itself back... (Although I hadn't just restored the rest of the car, either... )   The 2-tone color is my personal preference, and I do prefer the hardtop-on look for the pagoda.

[dtuttle123]

Craig -

The black top looks great against the silver.  I recently did the same with my 250SL, changing the hardtop color to black, against the 501 Orient Red body.

To be correct, you'll need to change the color of your hubcaps to black also.

[Bob G ✝︎]

 My dad got a used hard top from a later year same color but there are two small dents  that appear on the side like something dropped on it.. the chrome and rubber and head liner are all in great condition . The original hard top needs serious renovation . Chrome , seals and headliner . It has original paint and the steel chrome bars on top for the luggage rack. I have been pondering what to do with it and if I what  to take on the restoration.

My  1968 280SL is 158 white grey but not the original white grey color since  it has been spot painted many times I have seen a restored 280SL 158 color with brown soft top and a beautiful brown leather interior at Fashion Island many years ago and know what the real color looks like. The car was ordered with  two tone paint 040 hard top with Mercedes-Benz Tex in Black and black hub caps . I was once thinking of  respraying the hard top I now have for the car white grey and having a second set of hub caps the same color.

My 280SL is not a show car  in fact I do not know if the carpeting is even correct color  and weave. I some how think it should be that salt and pepper look grey with black?

I have seen Pagodas at car shows  that went through a color change and if done properly look incredible. Sure it is a deduction if you show your  car and a judge is smart enough to catch the vin plate code  number and notice. but  who
cares really as long as it was done tastefully and the owner enjoys the car. I rather think its OK with me.

Bob Geco
member #15

[Andres G]

Thanks all for the very insightful replies. I think I now have a better idea of what I should think of in regards of a car that has received a color change... I do have to say that the quality of the paint and restoration job is superb, which is exactly the reason why we walked away from this vehicle, as there is no other flaw (well, maybe one or two that are minimal and very easy to correct) than the color change, making it hard to negotiate a lower price. This may be the case pointed out by Mike Hughes, in which the car could have brought $90+ in the original color but may take forever to find someone who wants it... instead they chose to paint it a more popular color (a great one indeed) that will probably sell sooner but for a lower price.

Maybe I missed it, but did the seller say why he repainted it? Damage? Rust? For me to part with $60K (+taxes, registration, etc. etc.)  EVERYTHING would need to be original and near perfect.  I'm sure you can find a great car in your original price range. 

The reason stated by the restorer/seller for the color change was that he didn't think there'd be a single person in USA looking for an SL that would want to own a Green/Red one. There is absolutely no rust on the car, it looks perfectly original inside and out.

The follow up question is:  Did you and your friend consult with the seller and try to reach a mutually agreeable price, bearing in mind your reservations about the ultimate value of a non-original paint color?  And finally:  Are you and your friend in the market for an investment vehicle or a solid, mechanically trouble-free, and cosmetically superior vehicle to enjoy and use?

Mike, like I mentioned above, we both believe the quality of the job is outstanding and that it would be really hard to negotiate the price of the car down. We may go back and try to secure a deal for a lower price, but I get the feeling I'd end up going down he same path that MichaelB did and probably want to sell the car soon afterwards.

Regarding your final question, it seems that there are many different ways to clasify a car... what some people consider an investment car, some others consider a driver. In my opinion, I'm not looking for a car I would not want to drive in other than a very special occasion, but at the same time, I get the feeling that cars that are being considered "solid drivers" are below my standards on cosmetical appearence. So, to answer your question: Yes, we are in the market for a solid, mechanically trouble-free and cosmetically superior car that we can still drive on weekends, down to the office and still show eventually during summer time.

I think in the end, I will continue to look just like I've done so far until the right one comes across my path.

Thanks again.
Andres G

[hkollan]

Hi,

I don't have much to add that hasn't been said yet, but to me there are two crucial conditions for changing the color.
First that it is done completely. That would normally only be possible as part of an extensive/total restoration. And secondly that the color chosen is correct for the model and year and is combined with the interior color according to the factory recommended color combinations.

834 moss green metallic  is a great color but I've never seen it with a red interior.
It must have been a special order, since those colors green/red where not according to the factory recommended list of color combinations. So one can almost understand the owners preference to change it to a more mainstream combo.
Assuming that they used original silver paint code 180 and that the car is as perfect as you describe personally I would not
exclude it from considerations because they converted it from a "crazy" to a nice color combination. ;-)

I must confess that I am  biased in this question, since I've changed color on two of my cars as part of total restorations.
Both times I went with colors that where original and also matched the factory recommendations for combinations with tops interiors etc. 

Regards,

Hans

[thelews]

To all but the most literal of buyers, as long as the color was available for the particular year and model, I don't think a color change is serious in terms of resale.  I changed the color of my 190 SL from 534 red to 317 grey/blue.  I, and a few others, think the new combo is smashing and who needs to see another red 190 SL?  The proper paint code was put on the tag. 

[k]

Gnerally agree on original colors....

However, if you have a Cognac interior; the replacement Gognac leather is so badly done by all suppliers that it looks like Leopard print.

A bamboo or dark tan with aging will look closer to original Gognac.

[66andBlue]

...  The proper paint code was put on the tag. 

Hmm 
Why?  Which tag is that, the equivalent of the code tag in the engine bay of a W113, or some kind of "removable hanging tag"?

Now if I were to find out that someone was selling me a car with fake documents - and the code tag is a document - I would walk away just as Andres did.

[thelews]

Hmm 
Why?  Which tag is that, the equivalent of the code tag in the engine bay of a W113, or some kind of "removable hanging tag"?

Now if I were to find out that someone was selling me a car with fake documents - and the code tag is a document - I would walk away just as Andres did.

The 190 SL has a separate paint code tag (and chassis tag) which is usually replaced and restamped as part of a full restoration.  It is different than the 113 tag.  In the event of a sale, at least in my case, I have the data card which shows the original color and the buyer can decide if the color change is a factor.  In fact, again in my case, I have the original, corroded tags that the buyer would also get as part of a sale.  I, as a seller, would have nothing to hide and would freely divulge the color change.  The car paint tag change is simply to provide the continuity of labeling as it would have come from the factory.  Any seller would be a fool to represent the car as original in color, when it differs from the data card, knowing the buyer can easily get the data card after buying the car.  Also, as part of the restoration documentation, the buyer would see the pictures of the car when I bought it.

[hkollan]

I agree with John and think that is a proper way to do it. As I see it the code tag, or production plate as someone call it, has nothing to do with a legal document. Where I come from it's in no way a legal requirement to have it on the car,  parts of the car containing a unique identifier such as the VIN number is of course a different story.

The production plate was solely an aid for the workers during the production to indicate colors, option codes what holes to drill and so on.
I've been playing with the thought of creating a production plate that matches the current state of the car I'm restoring.
Reflecting the color change of the car(from 181 to 462) and hardtop(from 181 to 040) as well as skipping code 491(US car) to match the new Euro specs of the car.  I would as John did, keep the original plate, and be fully open about the origin of the car to a potential buyer, in the unlikely event that I would ever sell the car.

[Andres G]

Well, I figure you guys deserve to know which car it is, since it's recently been listed on e-bay... here's the link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___WORLD-CLASS-250SL-Pagoda-W113-280SL_W0QQitemZ180325337356QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20TrucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item180325337356&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A317%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

Maybe we'll be able to tell what buyers think about it, except for the fact that the color change was not disclosed in the listing as well as John mentioned he'd do contingent upon selling the car. I foresee at least a surprised buyer or maybe a hammer price on e-bay that doesn't really reflect what the final payment on the car is, like Mdsalemi wrote a few weeks back.

Andres G

[waqas]

That interior looks good enough to eat!

I can only dream of mine looking like that one day-- then again it already looks half-eaten!