How does changing the original color affect resale value?

[Garry]

Beautifull looking car. Shame about the color change.

[66andBlue]

... except for the fact that the color change was not disclosed in the listing ...

Andres,
when you considered buying the car did you look at the paint tag? Does it show the code for the original color or the current code (180)?

[Andres G]

Andres,
when you considered buying the car did you look at the paint tag? Does it show the code for the original color or the current code (180)?

I did. The tag shows the original color. I'll find a picture of it and post it later.

That interior looks good enough to eat!

I can only dream of mine looking like that one day-- then again it already looks half-eaten!

The interior is not my first choice of color for a Silver car, but it looks so darn nice I liked it anyway.

Andres

[66andBlue]

It is nice to know that the Motoring Investments did not change the original tag during the restoration, and frankly, I would not have expected it from the owner.
I prefer sellers/dealers who keep the "birth certificate" just what it is and don't change it into a "passport" where after every renewal you can see how we change from "red haired and bushy tailed" to "graying and thinning", to a "white half moon", and finally a "bald egg". 
In the past an asking price of 60K would not have been unreasonable considering the extensive restoration.

[Andres G]

In the past an asking price of 60K would not have been unreasonable considering the extensive restoration.

Totally agree... however, like Bob said: The times, they are A-changin'

Here's the picture as promised:



Regards,
Andres G

[hkollan]

Andres,

Not sure if you're still considering the car, but here's what I noted looking at your tag picture and the ebay pics

Painted relays on a "fully restored World Class 250 SL"?  What looks as unchanged front shocks,  both front fenders seems to have been  replaced, wrong colored sun visors matching the old interior(unless they're brown/beige from stains), rough trunk floor, US headlights on a Euro ca, late style 280 taillights, black wiper blades(I hate that), probably old repainted fueltank, missing rubber strips for hood, color change etc.
I have great respect for Brian at MI, and I've personally seen several of the 100k range cars at his shop, but it seems he had his reasons for why this car would not be in a higher price range with or without the color change.

Still a terrific looking car though.

[Andres G]

Thanks for the input Hans. I'm sure there'll be plenty of details that could be worked on in this specific SL. Unfortunately, I guess knowing it has a green soul has turned me down and away from it.

I continue to monitor the auction, but I foresee it will not sell or reach reserve on ebay. If it were to reach a low reserve (around 40 k) I think I might jump on it.

Andres

[john.mancini]

So many good points being raised. Personally, I have never bought, and never would buy, a color change car. Why? Mostly personal preference. I am a stickler for originality, but, that's just me. Does it hurt the value to change the color? In my opinion, most definitely. Most buyers will ask if the color is the original color. If not, they ask for a lower price that would reflect a total repaint. That being said, there are some amazing cars out there that have had color changes. Their owners are fine with that. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, but if they ever sell, they will find that most buyers will deduct for the change.
John

[dseretakis]

Generally speaking there is little tolerance for modifications in the Mercedes community.  A color change is a major modification in my book.  I wouldn't touch a color changed collector car.

[waqas]

Generally speaking there is little tolerance for modifications in the Mercedes community.

I disagree. There are all kinds of modifications possible on any car. I don't think you can make such a blanket statement about the entire 'community' (if there is such a thing). Between collectors and drivers, there's a whole range of personalities involved in ownership.

For me, it essentially boils down to respect for the car. Modifying the body shape in any way is disrespectful, but installing a rear-axle with another diff ratio is not. Putting in a Chevy V8 is disrespectful, but installing vented rotors is not. Painting any of the chrome to match body colour is disrespectful (believe me, I've seen it!), but changing the body colour is not-- especially if the new colour was an original option.

I believe both Michael Salemi and Bob Possel have shown tremendous respect for their cars

[thelews]

Especially when it's a better color than original.  Green with a red inside?  Did they only drive it at Christmastime?

[bogeyman]

When you look for decades (literally!) for a color combination that was available, but never find it, you have two choices. I chose to buy a white car and change it to black with parchment leather. It was either that or never get the colors I wanted.  I don't think the market will miss one white car, and to my eye, I have substantially improved the value of it.  If I would ever sell it, I would fully disclose the original colors to the potential buyer.
I have seen many a 300sl with color changes, and there always seems to be a market for them.

[hkollan]

Good points Wagas and Bogeyman.

I still have some doubts about that Silver 250 car ever having had a red interior from the factory, when looking at the sun visors they clearly seem to be yellow/beige colored and not Grey as they would have come originally with a red interior.
Those beige looking sun visors would match a cognac or bamboo interior that again would go well with  a mossgreen exterior.
Andres, did you ever get a chance to look at the datacard for the MI car?

[Garry]

Reading all the comments that have been made has been most interesting, enjoyable and enlightening.  There have been good points by both camps, but if you revert to the original question of " how does the changing of the original color affect resale value" then the answer appears to be:

a.   There will be a number of people who will not be interested in buying the car under any circumstances
b.   There will be a number of people that will not be interested in buying the car, that is, unless the price was low enough to entice them.
c.   There will be a number of people who will be happy to buy the car and will pay what ever they think is reasonable for the condition presented
      as they like or wanted that color.

I guess a non quantifiable part of this question will be that if more people are interested in buying a car will it gain a higher price, certainly at an auction that appears to be the case, however, in the end a buyer will pay what ever he thinks is a reasonable price if it is what he wants and is happy with. A perfect case of market forces in action.

[Mike Hughes]

Well put, Garry.

For what it's worth there were 17 bidders for the E-Bay subject car, no sale, reserve not met.  High bid around $45K (U.S.), buy it now price appeared to be around $60K (U.S.).

[Andres G]

Very good and interesting replies indeed. I'm almost proud of actually starting a thread on this forum that attracted this much interest. As for myself, I've realized that what Garry states above is very true and descriptive. I seem to be part of the "b" group and most people I've talked about the subject with, as well as the ones that posted in this thread, belong to either groups "b" or "c".

Andres, did you ever get a chance to look at the datacard for the MI car?

Unfortunately, I did not. Brian did not have the datacard or a copy of it...

Regarding some of your prior observations, the taillights are actual model accurate, as it was an Italian car (see the amber turn signal section of them is much smaller than the later type). The rest of the comments were very useful too, as I'd not noticed the wiper color change or the missing weatherstripping on the hood.

For what it's worth there were 17 bidders for the E-Bay subject car, no sale, reserve not met.  High bid around $45K (U.S.), buy it now price appeared to be around $60K (U.S.).

I put the 45K bid in there, hoping that would meet reserve or put me close enough to it so that Brian would consider a Second Chance Offer... I am yet to call him to discuss, but it seems he's not too flexible on the price and I just don't think it's worth more than that (considering not only the color change, but other things that are not completely perfect with it).

I guess I'll just have to continue searching. All is good though, I love learning about these cars, plus I've gotten to meet and know some very particular individuals while checking out cars, many of them worth writing a book about...

Andres G

[hkollan]

Andres,

I was a little too quick while observing those taillights. You're absolutely right, they are correct for that car. I even have an NOS taillight like that lying here somewhere, should have noticed that one.  That's pretty amazing that the car still retains those tail lights in what seems to be pretty decent condition.

[john.mancini]

Andres G,
Brian at MI seems to have some other Pagodas that, to me,  are much better "buys" than the 67 250SL. The silver 69 4-speed appears to be a very correct, California car. All numbers and codes are correct and there's documentation with the car. Have you looked at that car? I honestly think that the silver/red car may possibly not be worth the money that has been put into it. As beautiful as it appears to be, it's not what it appears to be(if you know what I mean).
John M

[Andres G]

Andres G,
Brian at MI seems to have some other Pagodas that, to me,  are much better "buys" than the 67 250SL. The silver 69 4-speed appears to be a very correct, California car. All numbers and codes are correct and there's documentation with the car. Have you looked at that car? I honestly think that the silver/red car may possibly not be worth the money that has been put into it. As beautiful as it appears to be, it's not what it appears to be(if you know what I mean).
John M

John,

Thanks for your input. I have thought much about the type and model car I (we) would like to get and I've come to the conclusion that there are certain things I need the car to have for it to fit the bill and float my boat. I will probably export this car sometime in the future when my career path takes me either back home to Argentina or somewhere else, probably Asia... but in the end, this car will end up with me in South America (hopefully). Most american models are very unpopular in these parts of the world, due to their needs for special parts that are only common and available in the US and hard to find everywhere else, therefore hurting their resale value somehow.

To put this in perspective, a nicely kept W107 with less than 70K miles from 1975 can bring upwards of US$ 40K in Argentina, while a US Spec car with an auto may bring roughly half of that. This is even more evident with the W113 as they are so rarely seen for sale and when they do, nice ones go for more than $100K (I've seen and driven one that sold for $145K a little over a year ago - beautiful!) while a 280 that was for sale from a former employee of the US embassy only brought around $35K and I believe it was a nice combo. I've even heard rumors stating that a 230 owned by Juan Manuel Fangio is hidden somewhere in a warehouse while it's current owner awaits for the right time to sell it. I wonder how much that one will go for...

Anyway, aside from the resale value, there are features I do not like from the US spec cars myself, such as the headlights and side markers, the door pockets and the bumperettes to name a few. I can easily work these out of an existing car, but why do this when I can continue to look for a car that fits my preference more closely? I've had and continue to have a great time while looking for the right Pagoda, I guess I can relate this to the thrill and excitement one feels when trying to seduce a woman 

Regarding the silver one from MI, I really liked the way the car looks, but I too feel it is not what it appears to be - thus my 45K maximum offer for it.

Thanks again,
Andres G

[dseretakis]

I did say "generally speaking" and I hold strong to this opinion.  I will, however, re-phrase.  Generally speaking most mercedes enthusiasts prefer cars without significant cosmetic modifications.  I will leave the word "significant" to be interpreted however you like.  I, for example, replaced the matte horn ring on a 72 220/8 with a shiny one.  I don't consider this to be major and I occasionally disapprove of my minor modification.

I disagree. There are all kinds of modifications possible on any car. I don't think you can make such a blanket statement about the entire 'community' (if there is such a thing). Between collectors and drivers, there's a whole range of personalities involved in ownership.

For me, it essentially boils down to respect for the car. Modifying the body shape in any way is disrespectful, but installing a rear-axle with another diff ratio is not. Putting in a Chevy V8 is disrespectful, but installing vented rotors is not. Painting any of the chrome to match body colour is disrespectful (believe me, I've seen it!), but changing the body colour is not-- especially if the new colour was an original option.

I believe both Michael Salemi and Bob Possel have shown tremendous respect for their cars

[waqas]

I did say "generally speaking" and I hold strong to this opinion.  I will, however, re-phrase.  Generally speaking most mercedes enthusiasts prefer cars without significant cosmetic modifications.  I will leave the word "significant" to be interpreted however you like.

Fair enough, and well-said. 

[redpagoda]

The choice of color is individual, whilst I understand that some prefer the colors as originally prescribed by the factory, There are generational groups who are less concerned about the color and more about the condition. Today manufacturers such as BMW and Mercedes offer " Individual" cars where both paint color, interior materials ( Ostrich Leather) and other minor specifications can be ordered as a premium option. In the future are we suggesting that they will be viewed upon with a lower market value?

If the color suits the vintage than I for one would not be concerned about color ,if it was to my liking. If on the other hand it is some iridescent pink than I assume the desire would be less and thus be reflected in the resale value

[Richard Madison]

Special color cars ordered today would have a car plate, an order form, an invoice, or the equal of a Data Card to show the original special color. If a special color car of today became a collector car in years to come, by looking at one of these items, the buyer would know if the color on the car was original.

Actually this is no different than if one of our W113 cars was ordered in a special color, perhaps a tint available for another Mercedes model of the period. The special color would appear on the Data Card.

Richard M, NYC

[john.mancini]

There's no doubt that there have been two brilliant deductions that have been brought forward by this esteemed group:
1. The owner of the car should have any color he wants. We have those who care about originality, and those who couldn't care less about originality.
2. A color change from the original, in most cases, will lower the value of a car to most serious buyers.
I think we have skewered this topic. Let's continue with the tow (toe) ring and tie down theory now.
John

[Joe]

Forgive me brethren and sisteren for I have sinned. I was selfishly  thinking only of myself and not of those mythical people who might want to consider buying my car, if and when I decide to part with it, either from senility or death. My sin is especially dishonorable when one considers that I have changed not only the body color but, (mirable dictu!) the carpet color and interior color as well. That's thirty lashes!
Perhaps were one to open a discussion "How does changing the original color affect value?, I could be forgiven of these sins, for much of what I perceive as the value of my car is how much earthly pleasure it gives me.
Pax vobiscum,
Joe