Replacing my engine .... Celebration Time!

[Cees Klumper]

Here's an update on our looong thread of last May/June, concerning the 280 (M130) engine rebuild Joe Alexander and I did then in Ohio. The engine made its way back to Amsterdam and I am now working on getting the old one out, in order to fit the rebuilt one. Some comments:
- removing the hood was easier than I thought
- there are more connections to "the rest of the car" than I had realized: there are many, many coolant hoses, electrical connections, fuel lines, oil tubes, air intake and exhaust connections, that all need to be undone.
- In attempting to drain the radiator I did what Joe had warned me for: I applied just a little force to the drain plug and the whole assembly came right out of the radiator body. Soldered in place it was, and today I will try to solder it back in that same place. If unsuccesfull, I will take it to a radiator shop. Pity, because I had no cooling problems and the radiator looks like a more recent (less than 10 years) replacement unit.
- I am taking the opportunity to clean everything that is coming out really well: hoses, throttle linkage, air filter canister, hose clamps etc etc etc. This is (for me at least) a fun activity that returns most items to looking almost like new. Does take a lot of time.
Here's a photo of Joe and I after finishing up the new engine (at 2 AM) back in June, and back in Ohio:
http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/ja17/200361302859_P1010076.jpg
More to come ...

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[Cees Klumper]

Today I:
- removed the fuel filter canister (there is a lot of fuel in there that flows right out if you're not careful)
- separated the power steering hoses at the steering box (the oil flows right out even if you're careful)
- undid the 6 bolts from the exhaust manifolds to the downpipes (these are tricky to get at)
- removed the heat shield attached to the intake manifold
- removed the intake manifold
- disconnected the starter motor wires
- took out the alternator
- attempted to repair the radiator: only partly succesfull - will have to follow-up tomorrow
I am following the instructions in the Haynes manual - so far so good. Hopefully tomorrow I will be able to get the engine-and-auto-transmission out, using my heavy-duty (2000 lb) hoist, so I can start transplanting the various odd pieces from my old engine onto the new one (distributor, injectors and lines, starter motor, power steering box, water pump etc etc etc).

Only today did I realize that most of the larger aluminum parts on my engine have been painted by a previous owner with some sort of matte-silver finish, probably spray-painted on. It actually looks good and clean, compared to the dull aluminum that would be original. I think I will keep this coating on, if it cleans up (from grease etc) well.

Question - does anyone know if the exhaust manifolds can be coated with anything that will keep them from looking like the rust-covered cast iron bits that they are? Or are all spray/paint products prone to fail at these extreme temperatures.

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[ja17]

Hello Cees,
Consider removing the cylinder head while in the car. It is in a nice stable and easy to work location. It's removal will make the rest of the engine removal easier. Also you do not need to break the chain, just drop it into the chain gallery after removing the camshaft sprocket. The intake manifold nuts are your biggest challenge but will be easy with the correct tools. Use a 14mm swival socket with a long extension on most. Don't worry about the difficult exhaust manifold/frt. pipe bolts. After unhooking the head, jack up the exhaust and the head can be slid off the exhaust manifolds. This makes working on the difficult six exhaust pipe/manifold bolts very easy. With the head off many of the difficult starter, engine/transmission bolts and others are easy. Carry on!

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[Douglas]

http://www.jet-hot.com/



Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #018260

[Cees Klumper]

Hey, Joe and Doug on/line at the same time! Thanks very much for the pointers.

I already removed the 6 exhaust bolts, I´ve done this so many times before in trying to get them to stay tight, I can almost do it with my eyes closed. After doing this about six times without success, I deduced that the problem is in the downpipes and not in the bolts/nuts. I have a new stainless steel exhaust ready to go in when the new engine is in place.

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[W14]

Hi Cees,

1. I sandblasted the exhaust headers, and then coated with the POR-15 High-Heat/Anti-Rust coating.  They have only 400 miles on them, but no sign of any change due to heating yet.

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Download Attachment: Exhaust man.JPG
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2. With the exhaust manifolds removed, and thus easy access to the starter wiring, I added a wire to the starter solenoid terminal to serve as "remote starter" lead.  I paired this wire with the pos. batt. cable, also threading it through the metal/rubber batt. cable grommets attached to the front oil-pan bolts. The wire stops just short of the pos. batt. terminal, so it can't accidently touch.  Makes it easy to turn the engine over for dwell adjustments, etc.



Will W14
1965 230SL 4spd
Victoria,BC

[Cees Klumper]

Thanks for the tips Will. I will try to get my hands on POR or Jet-Hot for the manifolds. Today I removed the automatic transmission filler tube and the vacuum tube (they are loosely attached together). Drained the auto trans fluid first. I also removed the long heat shield underneath the car, and removed the wires connected to the trans. I discovered too late that the three wires are of a different size, so I labelled them unnecessarily. Then I removed the heavy-gauge metal support plate that the automatic transmission "sits" on. Sixteen 17mm bolts. I had another go at soldering the radiator drain plug assemby back in place, but the silver/lead solder does not seem to want to "mate" with the copper too well. Will try again with a different solder. I removed the rear-exhaust manifold. I also removed the two black aluminum grille parts - these I will repaint, along with the other parts that should be (glossy or flat) black. It's like remoddeling your home: for a long time, it will only start to look worse and worse.

I am taking my time in cleaning all the parts that are coming off, from grime/oily deposits, using a basic degreaser (kerosene-like fluid) and, sometimes, brake cleaner. When I got home this evening, I had plenty of dirty clothes, and my own hair, to wash as well ...

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[George Des]

Cees,

I did the same thing on my radiator. While trying to open the pet cok, the whole assembly torqued off the radiator. To solder it back on, you need to approach it the same way you would do your home plumbing of copper pipes. Make sure both the part you soldder on and the area on the radiator where it goes are thoroughly cleaned and roughed up with some emery cloth or sandpaper. Coat the radiator area and part with some solder flux-- put the parts together and then heat with a propone torch directing the flame first at the fitting. Keep touching a tip of solder to the opposite side of the fitting from where the flame is directed. Once the solder starts to melt direct the flame more on to the radiator section and then touch the solder to the joint area. The solder should be drawn into the gap-- let it cool and you should be done--Good Luck--George

[Cees Klumper]

Thanks a lot George! This will get the job done. I never soldered with a torch before ...

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[graphic66]

Make sure when soldering your radiator you use acid core solder and not rosin core. Get liquid acid flux also. Clean everything till it shines and then heat the metal and let the metal melt the solder. Keep a wet cotton rag handy to wipe excess off and to cool. The first step usually involves tinning the parts before assembly, this means getting the mating surfaces coated with the solder in a nice even covering almost like they were plated. Any voids at this time mean the parts are dirty and need to be cleaned better. After tinning put the parts together and clamp if nesasary, you may need some heat to get the p[arts mated after tinning, then apply heat and flux and solder to join the parts and wipe off excess with the wet rag. Any water or antifreeze present will ruin your job, if you see it bubbling and steaming when soldering stop and clean the part some more. Most of the time it is easier to remove the part and do the work on a bench with gravity in your favor. After soldering do a bench test. The cheap way is to block all openings with hoses and clamps and get a moutain bicycle tube 2:00x26 cut it in half and clamp each end over the radiator hose nipples and pump air in the tubes valve and let it set with the tube infalted. I have used this method several times and it works. The main thing is the proper solder and cleanliness. I use my oxy actelene torch mainly, however on a small job propane will work. Hope this helps.

[n/a]

I am interested to see how the POR 15 exhaust coating holds up. So far, in my limited experience, nothing beats Jet-Hot. Another Forum that I look in on is the GT40s Forum and these cars have significant exhaust heat problems (big motor, poor air circulation under the rear deck, etc). Jet-Hot has worked best for the other GT40 owners. POR 15, though, costs less and you don'thave to send the exhaust system in. Interesting.

[Ben]

I went to my local motorfactor and just bought a can specifically for coating exhaust manifolds. I sprayed it black and that was almost 8 months ago. It hasn't flaked with daily use !

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
'03 CLK Kompressor

[Cees Klumper]

This afternoon I managed to pull the engine and auto transmission out of the car. It turned out not to be too difficult, after some minor 'glitches' not really covered in the Haynes step-by-step description. All in all it must have taken me at least about two full days, although an appreciable amount of time was spent cleaning all the parts coming out, including all of the large and small nuts, washers and bolts. One thing that I cannot figure out is how an exhaust system that is welded front-to-back (which is normal) can be removed in one piece with the engine in place. There seems to be no way that the downpipes can be withdrawn from their cramped quarters. With the engine out it is quite easy but with the engine in, I can not see how it can be done, without cutting the pipes.

The next steps are to transplant all of the 'externals' (FI pump, distributor, injectors & plumbing, starter, alternator, etc etc etc.) onto the rebuilt engine. A few months ago I completely rebuilt a distributor, now I need to move the electronic ignition bits from my old distributor onto that rebuilt one.

Then cleaning of the engine bay, fresh paint on various areas and bits and pieces. Next is the 'installation is the reverse of removal' procedure. Getting all the linkages, ignition timing etc etc back in spec, and then ... the strenuous moment of turning the ignition key. Joe Alexander gave me a couple of things to watch when the rebuilt engine first starts up, to make sure nothing goes wrong in the first minutes and hours of operation.

One important step in all of this is to go back through the site, the Technical Articles etc etc to make sure I am armed with all of the necessary knowledge. After all, I am an accountant and when I got my car a few years ago, even changing the oil was 'outside of scope'.

I will get back to the job on Saturday but, after that, it may be a while before I find time again.

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[Bob G ✝︎]

Cees:
It sounds like you are getting the old girl back on the road. Two things I would like to comment on. I think The manifold pipes should be white I would send them out to Jet Hot coating as per Douglas Kims remendations. I had them do the headers on my ford Mustanf and they look great. Second while you have the engine apart you can spray cad the fuel injection lines and linkage with a coat of gold cad paint from eastwood www.eastwoodcompany.com and last I noticed my SL had the radiator out and an American drain pitch put in. You might want to inquiry if you have to pull the radiator to do this so future services on the cooling system are not at risk.
Glad to hear from you and that your SL will soon be back on the road.
Bob Geco

[George Des]

Cees--the first start up afetr a rebuild is critical--one thing you really want to make sure of before you start the engine is to ensure the oil galleys are filled so you get the oil pressure up right away. When I rebuilt my engine a couple of years ago before I started it up I did a number of things to accomplish this. First, I packed the oil pump with rebuild lubricant to ensure an instant prime. Second,  I used a pressurized oil tank to fill the oil galleys through the oil filter intake. I pumped in the oil until I could see it actually coming out through the cam bearings. Next, with the spark plugs out I rotated the engine through several turns by using a large wrench on the crank pulley. I may have gone a little overboard with some of this--the pressure fill may have done the trick by itself-- but needless to say with all this prep, when I started her up, I had instant oil pressure.

[Benz Dr.]

Cees,
last time I removed an engine it took me 5 hours and I did it all by myself. Only help I had was to remove the hood. ( no wonder my back is sore right now )
You should call me before you're ready to start your engine as there's some very specific tests I do before start up and some break in procedures I use.
Hopefully you won't add leaving the rad cap off like I did ~)

Regards,
Dan c
SL Barn

Daniel G Caron

[Cees Klumper]

Thanks for all of the great tips! I will take some photos on Saturday of the project and post them.
Bob - I am still debating on the manifolds - sending these (VERY) heavy things to JetHot in the US may be more trouble than it's worth, but I will look into it.
George - when Joe Alexander and I put the new engine together, we used assembly lube on all of the components. I will have to see how to prime the engine now that it's all together, before starting it. Would cranking it for a while without the ignition operable (so it won't start) work? This way there will be no stress on the engine parts because no combustion, while oil is in fact finding its way throughout, and I suppose replacing the assembly lube.
Dan - I will call you for sure.
Thanks,
Cees

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[n/a]

Cees,
  There is a trick builders of American V8 engines do when they perform the initial startup of a newly rebuilt engine....they pull the distributor and spin up the oil pump driveshaft with an electric drill and oil pump drive adaptor shaft to pressure-feed all the bearings through the oil galleries. This may be possible with an M130 engine, but I don't know what the oil pump drive adaptor would look like...one of the Forum members who does this all the time would know.

[George Davis]

Jim, I don't think the distributor removal trick will work on these engines, they are arranged differently.  I wish it would work, but that would be too easy.

Cees, yes, it's possible to just crank the engine to build up oil pressure, but it takes so long you'll go crazy.  I removed the spark plugs so it would crank faster and tried it after an oil change to get the oil cooler and filter filled before starting.  Took forever.  Not sure if it's good or bad for the engine, but I nearly had a nervous breakdown!  George Des's method has got to be the best.

George Davis
'69 280 SL Euro manual

[George Des]

Jim--it is possible to do this and I actually did on mine. The major problem is that the distributor and tach drive are geared to the timing chain and it was a real pain to disconnect the chain in a way that I could spin the drive with an electric drill. I had my engine on a stand when I did this so it was easy to access the front of the engine but it still took some doing to disconnect the chain from the gear on the distributor drive without pulling the chain entirely out of the engine. As I recall, I had a fair amount of oil gush out of the opend distributor drive case as well. In my opinion, the other methods I mention in my earlier post are much easier and just as effective on this type engine.


George

[Cees Klumper]

Wow. I'll make sure the oil is everywhere before I start her up - one way or the other. I will call Joe and Dan before I make a move for sure. I will document everything in detail for posterity.

Gerard Wuisman (member here) emailed me off-line to let me know he will visit on Saturday. It's great to have all this support on-hand. More news to follow.

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[ja17]

Hello Cees,
There are probably a hundred rituals performed by different engine builders before first start up. Everyone will swear by his particular method. First get the local witchdoctor out to the garage to make sure there are no hexes or curses on your engine or shop. (just kidding)
Here are some of my thoughts; engine assembly lube was used during assembly, this is designed to stay in place and not drain off metal parts during long terms of storage. At some point during first start-up it will be washed away by the initial oil stream.
 In the old days we would make our own assembly lube out of graphite powder and oil. The 190-SL and 300-SL factory shop manuals, instruct engine builders to use "graphite oil" for this purpose. These days commercial assembly lubes are even better with sythetic lubricants and graphite powder etc. The basic concept here is to keep the metal parts coated or protected during start up even after long storage. These assembly lubes are designed to do the job until the oil arrives.
First of all your car is not going to start immediately. It takes quite a bit of cranking at full pedal to get fuel up through those long injector lines. You may get a brief fire-up from the starting valve, so you may want to temporarily disconnect it's wire. Crack open the injector lines at each injector. Remove the coil wire and all the spark plugs and crank engine until the oil pressure registers on the guage. It will take some cranking. As you see fuel leak at each injector tighten each line. By this time you will have fuel and oil pressure. Install the spark plugs, coil wire and hook-up the cold start wire and you are ready to go. If your ignition and valve timing and are right you may be surprised by an immediate start-up. Static time the distributor for first start, then set to specs soon as possible.
Shorten the time it may take to get oil pressure by pre-filling the oil filter canister with as much oil as possible. You will not be developing much strain or heat on the metal parts until the engine is actually running.
In case you are still nervous about damage during first start-up, years ago, I made a simple tool to competely presurize the engine with oil before start up. You need only to remove the aluminum bronze sleeve and verticle timing gear to use it. Everything stays in time and the oil pump is easily rotated to pump new oil everywhere.
I doubt that it really provides much more protection than the above precautions.
I will try to post photos of it and it's use this week end.
Now on the point of "running in" or "breaking in", the new engine is another exhaustive subject! We have had some private discussions on this during and after your stay here. Good luck. I am sure Dan will have some good input here also.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[n/a]

Right, I thought you might say that...the arrangement in American V8s is different. I think George's procedure will work fine. If he used assembly lube he shouldn't have any problem.

[Cees Klumper]

Today I spent another 9 hours in the shop, transferring parts from the old engine onto the new one. I spent two hours alone on putting new water caps on the engine block! Most of that time I spent cleaning the old Allen head bolts on a wire wheel to like-new condition (well, without the yellow di-chromate). I also removed all of the old paint off the power steering fluid container, so I can paint it new with semi-gloss black paint. Here's a photo I took of the old engine block, before I started to remove the container and the many other hoses-and-things, so I know which hose goes where when I get ready to put it all back together:

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And here's the now-empty engine bay:


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Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[jcjblo]

Cees
If you haven't already done so, its a great time while the engine is out to check the front suspension rubber parts (subframe mounts, kingpins, etc.) and replace - its much much easier.
Joseph

quote:Originally posted by cees klumper

Today I spent another 9 hours in the shop, transferring parts from the old engine onto the new one. I spent two hours alone on putting new water caps on the engine block! Most of that time I spent cleaning the old Allen head bolts on a wire wheel to like-new condition (well, without the yellow di-chromate). I also removed all of the old paint off the power steering fluid container, so I can paint it new with semi-gloss black paint. Here's a photo I took of the old engine block, before I started to remove the container and the many other hoses-and-things, so I know which hose goes where when I get ready to put it all back together:

Download Attachment: DSC00520.JPG
62.97 KB

And here's the now-empty engine bay:


Download Attachment: DSC00517.JPG
61.76 KB

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic