Adding coolant

[J. Huber]

So I learned a little something new yesterday. I have been in the midst of freshening up my engine bay -- more about that later... But, at the moment I have removed my Temperature Gauge capillary line at the block to be sent out for repair...

While I am waiting on that, I decided to sand and repaint the large coolant pipe that runs under the intake manifold and into the cabin on the firewall. Here's where the adventure started...I unhooked the pipe at the firewall, assuming that if I kept it facing up, only a bit of coolant would come out. Forgot about that open temperature gauge port! A lot of coolant gushed out at the block and there was not much I could do about it... sooo.

When the time comes to button everything back up -- what should I do? Will I be adding coolant through the reservoir? And can I expect air in the system? Any input appreciated...Geeze I can't wait for summer where I can drive the car instead of keep screwing things up....

[bpossel]

Hi James,

Once everything is buttoned back up, add coolant slowly through the overflow tank.  What works for me is to add slowly, then once the tank is about 1/3 full, I start the engine with heater levers to full heat.  I have a slight inclined driveway so have the car on the driveway and inclined with front up.  This helps to burp the air out.  Once burped, add add'l coolant and fill overflow tank ~ 1/2 way.
Good Luck!
Bob 

 

[J. Huber]

Thnak you Bob. This is really just early homework for now -- it will be a little while before I get to trying it. I have a level garage but a slope leading to it -- so once I start it up I can back down a scoach. In the meantime, I'll need to round up a compatible coolant. Stuff on my foot was the green kind. Any recommendations? I'd guess I lost a good 1/2 a gallon or so.

[bpossel]

James, you may need some more advice here because I will only recommend using Mercedes-Benz Antifreeze.  If you compare the cost difference, it really isnt that much more.  If me, I would just go ahead and drain out the remainder of your fluid and replace all of it with the same brand.  Use a 50/50 mix.  50% MB fluid and 50% distilled water.
Bob 

[J. Huber]

Well, that is good advice Bob. May I bug you some more? I have no problem using MB brand -- assuming I can locate it. Closest MB place is an hour away and frankly they have yet to help me find anything... Is there a specific type I want to ask for? And how much would we need? All very new to me. I have always had my mechanic take care of the coolant-related things -- and its only a year or so old because of a waterpump changeout.

And a more basic question: draining the rest of it? is there a plug on the big tank? Do I need to flush first with a hose before refilling? Fill same way as topping off? (rezzy?) -- the whole proposition scares me a bit....

[hkollan]

 I've always used the MB antifreeze w 50/50 regular tap water if it's not very hard. AFAIK there's no need to use distilled water according to MB.
Actually  I've read some strong opinions against using using  distilled water with the MB coolant on some German MB forums a while back.

[bpossel]

Hi Hans,

What did you read about in terms of negatives using distilled water w/MB fluid?
Thanks, Bob 

[hkollan]

Hi Bob,

Since I am no expert or chemist I will run the risk of making ridiculous statements by trying to translate and relay some of what I've read here
(in german):   http://www.sternschuppen.de/html/foren.html   

In short it has to do with maintaining the ion/mineral balance in the liquid. Since the distilled water is mineral and ion free the coolant would need to get the ions/minerals from somewhere else to restore the ion balance. Which means getting it from the surroundings and in this way cause corrosion. But I think my main point is that Mercedes does not prescribe using distilled water and one can therefore assume that their coolant is formulated for mixing with regular tap water.

For those of you who read german, here is one of the posts in a thread discussing the subject. Theres no way to link directly this thread that I'm aware of so if you're interested in the whole discussion try going to the site and do a search in the forum for "ionenkontrolle"

Achtung Ionenkontrolle!

geschrieben von Beule am 06.03.07 um 17:06:00:

Geschrieben von Beule am 06. März 2007 17:06:11:
Als Antwort auf: War mein... geschrieben von Hanu am 06. März 2007 14:36:36:

Moinsen.

Muß dabei echt an StarWars denken. (Bei der Flucht vom Eisplaneten)

Das Dumme an demineralisiertem Wasser ist, daß es ionenfrei ist.
Prinzipiell besteht immer das bedürfniss ein Gleichgewicht herzustellen.
Bei Flüssigkeiten ist das so, daß die Ionen gleicher Art immer gleichmässig verteilt sind.
Wenn nun in der Flüssigkeit Ionen fehlen, so werden sie aus der Umgebung entnommen, um das Gleichgewicht wieder herzustellen.
Dies passiert auch aus Feststoffen, aber in sehr geringer Menge.

Wenn nun im Kühler lange genug demineralisiertes Wasser steht, so lösen sich einzelnen Ionen aus der umgebenden Metalgitterstruktur.
Nach und nach kann so der Kühler angegriffen werden.
Ein häufiges Wechseln des demineralisierten Wassers beschleunigt dies noch, da sich bei jedem Wechsel, die Gleichgewichtslage wieder verschlechtert.

Von daher sollte immer normales Wasser genommen werden.

Bei sehr klakhaltigem Wasser besteht das Problem, daß es meist an der Sättigungsgrenze des Wassers liegt.
Wasser kann nur eine begrenzte Menge "Kalk" speichern.
Von daher fällt Kalk aus.
Begünstigt wird dies zusätzlich daraus, daß Der Kühler nicht aus Kalk besteht (Gleichgewicht).

Ein optimiertes Kühlmittel hätte also möglichst wenig Ionen, die nicht im Material des Kühlsystems vorkommen und möglichst viele Ionen von den Materialien, die direkten Kontakt zum Kühlmittel haben.

MfG
Beule

[66andBlue]

Hello Hans,
it may well be that MB recommends tap water but I do hope that it is not based on the scientific information provided by "Beule" - this is best described as "woodo science".   
What he claims - and as you translated correctly - is that more ions would be extracted from the metal pipes by distilled water compared to tap water in order to restore the proper ion balance. 
First, there are very few ions in a solid copper (or iron or aluminum) pipe and those that are present are very different from the ones in tap water.  So both fluids should in theory "extract" the same amount of such different ions from the metal. And what he writes about calcium deposits on the radiator walls and that the problem is exacerbated because the radiator is not made from limestone is even more hilarious! It is best to forget it - but thanks for posting it, I had a good laugh.
Alfred (der Diplomchemiker)

[hkollan]

Hi Alfred,

Happy to hear that you got a good laugh out of it, so at least my post was good for something. :-)
As I previously mentioned, to me the decisive factor is not "voodoo science" :-) but the fact that MB does not recommend distilled water(as they of course do with water added to battery acid) and therefore I assume that it is formulated to optimally mix with tap water. My point was that there are differing opinions and practices regarding this.
So one can do ones own research or trust the professionals, which is what I do(occasionally :-)), and in this case the best qualified would be the car manufacturer itself.

[J. Huber]

So update and more questions! Of course...

I decided this time to simply add coolant versus drain entire system. Mine was only a year old -- I had lost about 64 OZ. So, I did Al's procedure to burp system and topped off things. Unfortunately, it was one of the "lost posts" so I had to go by memory. Not a great proposition....

I think I did everything correctly except I couldn't for the life of me figure out where the nickel went...so I held the idle at 2000 until I had good heat pumping...Everything else seemed fine. Today I took my first drive with the new temperature gauge, etc. Car ran great -- however... Even after 20-25 mins of driving, the gauge stayed close to the second white square (60?). Before the problem, it always stopped just shy of the 80 (3rd square). This signaled a red flag -- I looked at wiki -- and I started thinking it was now a thermostat problem? Then I wondered if I still had air in system? would this mess up temp? So just now, I did Bob's procedure on a slant. This time, after the car sat idling for a good 15 minutes... the gauge creeped to somewhere between the two white squares but not all the way up where it used to be.

Do you think I am ok with things like this?

[Cees Klumper]

the gauge creeped to somewhere between the two white squares but not all the way up where it used to be.
Do you think I am ok with things like this?

Interesting to see your experience is similar to mine James: I replaced my temp gauge a year of two ago (after inadvertently breaking the capillary tube) and now the temp gauge shows about 15-20 degrees less than the old one did. I did not change a thing about the actual cooling system, it's just that the gauge shows a different reading. It could be that the gauge can be rotated slightly in its housing so as to 'tweak' / 'calibrate' the reading. I guess what I am saying is that it is possible that your actual coolant temperature is higher than what the new gauge is telling you, because that is what I assume is going on with my car.

P.s. if you did not get all of the air out of the system, then I would expect the reading to be high, not low.

[DavidBrough]

I've found the best way to refill the cooling system is to half fill first then start the engine and let it warm up with the heater fully on whilst gradually pouring in more coolant until the level just reaches the top of the header tank inlet pipe but does not enter the tank. It is important to do this slowly but prior to the opening of the thermostat. Stop the engine a few times and pump the top hose to encourage circulation then once the engine has warmed up to just under to 80/180 mark switch off and again pump the top hose which should then open the thermostat. Re start the engine and slowly top up to level checking all lines are warm. The main problem is usually the WRD return line to the inlet manifold but a couple of stop starts usually clears that if its not OK frist time. I'm sure I read this in a manual somewhere but it works for me every time with no air locks.

[hkollan]

Cees and James,

It sounds like you possibly got a temperature gauge from the same batch as a friend of mine a while ago.
The brand new gauge was not showing the correct temperature and had to be recalibrated in the sense that the needle was taken off and put correctly back on the axle. He let his speedometer shop do this, as the needle is pressed on the cone axle and might be a bit tricky to get off and properly on  again without damaging it.
I would test the gauge/sensor with some boiling water to see if the gauge itself is faulty.