Dash Speaker ?

[bpossel]

Has anyone been able to locate, install, make ... a center dash speaker replacement that fits our small cavity but yet holds 2 small speakers for stereo?   Ed Cave tried this a few years ago and didnt have any luck with the 3.5 inch jbls.... 

I dont want to go the kick pannel route, but would rather utilize the center speaker.  Not really concerned with true stereo separation and dont want to cut the side kick pannels, etc...

Thanks,
Bob 

[J. Huber]

Hi Bob. No answers for you but do have an idea. How about making a second set of kick panels -- and having some speakers in the reproduced one? I was able to fabricate new kick panels for my car along the way -- pretty simple as long as you have some extra Leather or MB Tex handy. The panels can be removed and put back in place fairly easily. I have a Europa II and enjoy having stereo sound left and right.

[JamesL]

Bob

I understand that early 911s also had a dash speaker and I have seen a twin unit that fits under the original dash grille that MAY work

You may want to have a nose on the eary911 register or similar

http://www.early911sregistry.org/index.html

[bpossel]

Thanks Jim & Jim,

The second set of kick panels idea is.  I also swung over to the 911 site.  It looks like the 911's dash speaker cavity is a bit wider (deeper) than ours, so dual 4 inch speakers will work for them.  The issue with our cars is that the cavity is much narrower.  The options for our cars are more limited.  I did speak to Becker NA and they are very helpful!  While they dont have any options for dual speakers for the dash, they do offer options of: replacement dash mono speaker; a cable to operate the Becker stereo to the center mono speaker; radio swap, stereo radio to mono radio, etc.

Anyway, if anyone in the group has or does come up with a dual 3 inch (very shallow magnet) speaker setup for the center dash, please post details. I think having small dual speakers that direct the sound towards the windshield and then bounce back to the driver and passenger would sound good and maybe even better than the kick panel setup.

Thanks!
Bob 

[waqas]

... they do offer options of: replacement dash mono speaker; a cable to operate the Becker stereo to the center mono speaker; ...

Is there a difference between the sound from a pair of stereo speakers placed alongside, as opposed to a mono speaker hooked up via the stereo-to-mono mixing cable?

Seems like a solution looking for a problem.

[bpossel]

Hi Waqas,

It's always more fun making a problem, because then we can solve it.  In general you are probably correct and this is the way I will go.
However, if I could find ~2 inch speakers and custom make a frame to hold them in the center cavity at a slight outward angle, I bet it would sound better as the stereo left & right channel sound bounces off the windshield.
Oh well! 
Bob 

[JamesL]

Thinking laterally and into more modern cars....

surely you can find a pair of 2" tweeters

Put some bass speakers in the kick panels or behind the seats and have a really full sound

[waqas]

Bob, I forgot: you've nothing left to fix on your car, so you're inventing new things to do! 

If you really miss fixing your car, I've a couple projects in Austin you could really dig into.... 

[JimVillers]

I'll just comment with my experience.  I replaced a single 6 inch speaker with two 3 inch speakers in the under dash speaker box in my 190SL and added a hidden radio far under the dash (not visible).  I score this as "a good idea that didn't work".  My solution was to just put two outside patio speakers loose on the deck behind the seats.  No holes, not bolted down and the wires just laid under the rug.  Not hidden but works great and can easily be "returned to original".  My pagoda has a modern radio but I use the same approach for speakers.  They sound good and you can turn the volume up as much as necessary to overcome wind noise.  The wires have pull apart plugs so that they can be easily be removed at any time (like a show). 

[norton]

You might try these guys. http://www.vintagecarradio.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=2&products_id=9&osCsid=aobrqn5ohlsj0u48qvh3ln25t4
Or these guys http://www.madisound.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=45_241_282

[bpossel]

Thanks for all of the suggestions!
Bob 

[SteveK]

Lots of great suggestions here.  I also have the secret audio system installed (fits behind the glovebox, where the Becker power amp is located and then is operated by remote control).  I ran wires under the carpet and installed speakers under the seats.  Works OK but I'm constantly getting goosed on the base notes    I just called the vintage audio site and talked to them about their dual cone speakers.   They make them in 4x10, 5x7 and 6x9 sizes.   I'm going to measure and figure out how to make one of them work. 

[bpossel]

Steve,
Great!  Please keep us posted!
Bob 

[SteveK]

I guess this falls into the "nothing is easy" catagory.  I did the measuring and the speaker opening is small. 3.5" by 10".  To put anything stereo I would need to make a new speaker mounting plate matching the old and mount two 3" diameter speakers.   This Would be easy, but to get the old speaker out and have clearance to the space, you have to pull the two long wood trim strips, which are today, very low on my priority list!   For now i'm going to hook up my certer mono speaker and keep getting goosed from my under seat speakers.  FYI, I built my under seat speaker boxes myself but would have bought them from the vintage radio site if I new they existed.  Their boxes are 3" tall and should fit well under our seats. 

[66andBlue]

...if I could find ~2 inch speakers and custom make a frame to hold them in the center cavity at a slight outward angle, I bet it would sound better as the stereo left & right channel sound bounces off the windshield.

Hi Bob,
and I bet that you would loose. 
In order to perceive a good stereo sound your head should be at the tip of a triangle and the speakers at the base, that is, your left ear closer to the left speaker and right ear closer to the right speaker.  Even if the waves bounce of the windshield you would not be sitting in that sweet spot but if they are reflected by the door windows you might. The problem with that arrangement, however, is that the waves are no longer in the proper phase to each other and worse could cancel each other.  Also your ears can only distinguish left and right sound for high frequencies (above about 300 - 1000 hz) that is why you can put a bass (woofer) anywhere in a room and you need only one.  But those need a large volume, much bigger than the available space in the center of the dash.
There are plenty of 2" (and smaller) speakers available but these are all tweeters so you would have to place a subwoofer (bass) speaker somewhere unless you prefer a thin "tin can" sound. 
Your 280SL was designed for stereo speakers in the kick panel - no need to cut any metal - so why not go that route as Waqas suggested?
But if you really want to use the center space then use it to put "stingers" there.  Go to: http://www.mcsquared.com/mono-stereo.htm#demo
and mouse around the top graphic on the right and you'll see what I mean.
A fellow in Germany put his stereo design on the German web site.
Go to: http://www.pagodentreff.de/artikel/einbaustereo.html
and download the PDF file.  His solution was to put the a new amplifier/radio under the seat. It is controlled via infrared (IR) signals and can accept any MP3 (iPot) and other sources. The  subwoofer he put into the space below the rear parcel shelf (still covered by the carpet) and the 2 mid-range speakers behind the kick panels.  But the real kicker is the placement of the tweeters! 
He put one 21mm (0.8") tweeter in each of the fresh air supply ducts behind the rotating chrome grill opening - isn't that cool! 
Copy it and you have enough work to do for the next 3 months before you come to the PUB and we can listen to the results 
Good luck!

[bpossel]

Hi Alfred,

Thanks for the info.!  Well, it looks like what I really need is just the original replacement mono dash speaker from Becker.  Simple, easy and made to "fit".  No extra pieces under the seat, etc...  As you mention, no need for cutting any metal for the lower side kick panel speakers if I wanted stereo, but it does require cutting a hole in the kick panel itself.  For right now, I dont want to do this, so going mono!  Thanks again,
Bob 

[dixy2k]

Why don't you try one of these?
They run for about $100 on ebay.

http://www.clarion.com/us/en/products/2007/multimedia/accessories/SRK604/us-en-product-pf_1165294998405.html

[bpossel]

Hello dixy2k,

Thanks for the suggestion.
Bob 

[johnd]

Has anyone had the original reconed?  Was it successful?  Suggested vendors?  I think restorers of very old cars and real oddball makes do this.  Thanks.

[waqas]

Has anyone had the original reconed?  Was it successful?  Suggested vendors?  I think restorers of very old cars and real oddball makes do this.  Thanks.

No need. Becker sells brand new replacements. Having it re-coned would likely cost more than what Becker charges for the new speaker. This thread originated because Bob wants to try and fit two small speakers in place of the single mono speaker in the dash.

[johnd]

I checked on the Becker ones a few weeks ago and was amazed about the price.  I think reconing would be cheaper.  I know musicians have it done.  That material may not be good, though, as the sun gives these special abuse.  Hmmmm what to do . ..

[seattle_Jerry]

Really no point in  stereo speakers located in the center mounting location side by side...unless you are a mouse sitting between them. You need the proper separation.

The company that does the modern retrofits of the SLs makes kick panels with molded speaker openings just for our cars.

You can however use that speaker as a center channel if you get an aftermarket processor.

I'm not sure how it would work or sound as an adult, but as a high school kid I mounted tweeters using a bracket that attached to the sunscreen mount but left the sunscreens usable on my 220D.
I also back mounted woofers in the door and rear parcel tray, then covered bottom of panel/parcel tray with speaker cloth that looks like carpet.

[paulr]

I have 6 x 9's and an amp fitted in the farthest reaches of the boot ( trunk ) under the soft top which are bolted behind the carpet in the rear parcel shelf area. The head unit is in the deeper footwell box under the shelf and is controlled by remote control. I have a tv style remote but Sony do one of these multi function switches that can be mounted where ever. There is an ipod lead in the ashtray. The Becker is disconnected but remains in place. I have Tweeters under the dash that put the hi end back in lost by the speakers being behind carpet. The sound is amazing and I can even hear every word when doing 90 along the french highways with the top down.

[Peter van Es]

Interesting. I'm currently checking sound options. A previous owner put in big - but crappy speakers in the area behind the seats and cut holes through the back and the carpet. No amplifier and just Becker Europa Stereo. The sound quality and volume is bad, and I think one of the speakers actually has a small tear in them. The Becker's reception is just fine, and I'm thinking of buying one of these iPod cables.

I have no speakers installed at the footwell, no central dash speaker, and no highs to speak of.

So unless I want a lot of hassle I'd better replace the speakers at the back with a pair of better ones, linked to a small amp, and then some small tweaters under the dash?

What would be best, a simple 50 W RMS x 2 amp and a filter, or do I need more power? What speakers do people recommend? I don't want it to be too modern looking of course...

Peter

[xcashewx]

50 rms for 2-channels wouldnt be much,with 25rms per speaker on the highway you'll hear next to nothing. my suggestion is run those speakers to a 200w amp, (100rms, then 50rms to each speaker), make sure your speakers are rated for this wattage, i reccommend infinity speakers, they look nice and produce very good mid's and high's, and for an amp location you could put them under your speakers  so that no bolting is neccessary, you will notice a huge increase in sound clarity and, when the volume is high, no distortion. and for the tweeters you can buy speakers with a "tweeter" built in, good choice if you dont want to do anymore cutting etc.. this wont make you  too "modern" as the only things visible will be the speakers which you already had.

on my SL i have (2) 5 1/2's on the kicker panels and (2) 12in subs behind the seats all powered by a 4-channel amp, sounds great and you never have to worry about not being able to hear anything