Author Topic: Has the value of our cars tanked???  (Read 40222 times)

66andBlue

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Re: Has the value of our cars tanked???
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2009, 23:35:01 »
Not quite sure what you want to know, or what "bugs" you.
The CalClassix car begs the question how much value one should add (or subtract!) from  car just because a "celebrity" owned it. Personally, I wouldn't add a penny more, although I do value the fact that the car's history is documented. Since we don't know the reserve we have no idea what the dealer wants for it.  But had it sold for the maximum bid of 33K then in all likelihood all of us would have groaned about the sinking values.
The Motoringinvestment car is also very well documented as we have come to appreciate on all cars that Brian advertises. Just like the other one, the history is known, it is a one-owner car, but it is a "California Coupe".
As "Cascadia" wrote earlier, it might have brought 5K more a few years ago, but 40K is still a solid price.
"I am more focused on not overpaying" ...  well, that is like timing the market. You are not the only one who wants buy low and sell high, so does the dealer or broker.;D  
Just take the plunge and buy what you really like from a reputable dealer or private owner.  The big expenses wont stop the day you take delivery, we all know that by now.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2009, 23:37:07 by 66andBlue »
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

ctm14

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Re: Has the value of our cars tanked???
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2009, 23:52:35 »
   I guess what bugs me is that these two examples are well documented low mileage cars I thought would have stirred more interest.  In the case of the CA coupe sure that may be a disadvantage but I would have thought it would have brought stronger money with all the originality.  As far as the celebrity car I didn't expect that fact to bring the money but with thirty some early bids and the complete docs I thought the bidders would have hunted a bit higher for the reserve.  I am new and still learning and trying to make sure I  don't make an emotional purchase as a few cars I am considering are less documented and in the high 40's.  No doubt I am overthinking this  :)
« Last Edit: August 06, 2009, 00:07:03 by ctm14 »

Mike Hughes

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Re: Has the value of our cars tanked???
« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2009, 01:10:02 »
The bottom line is that the "right" price is what a willing buyer is willing to pay a willing seller for a particular item at a given point in time.  If you find the Pagoda you like at a price you are comfortable with, buy it and enjoy it!  This is probably as good time as there has been recently to get a nice Pagoda at a reasonable price and you have found at least a couple that seem to interest you.
- Mike Hughes  -ô¿ô-
  1966 230SL Auto P/S
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66andBlue

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Are prices creeping up again?
« Reply #28 on: December 22, 2009, 04:35:29 »
Here is one that wasn't described that well and accompanied by only a few photos, but $53K was not enough to purchase it.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320461449844
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

ctm14

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Re: Has the value of our cars tanked???
« Reply #29 on: December 22, 2009, 20:45:50 »
I watched that one as well and wonder what the reserve was.  I agree the photos and description could have been better.

gzmavian

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Re: Has the value of our cars tanked???
« Reply #30 on: December 23, 2009, 00:01:10 »
What is the groups feeling about this recent eBay listing?  Is this a fluffed up cosmetic restoration or a solid example of a respectable restoration?  Is this original an combination  ?  It  has vusual curb side appeal. 

john.mancini

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Re: Has the value of our cars tanked???
« Reply #31 on: December 23, 2009, 14:32:13 »
Brian at Motoring Investements just reported that a car he recently sold just re-sold for $109,000.00! The really nice, low mileage originals are being sought by overseas buyers. I had numerous inquiries and offers from European buyers when my 68 was featured on this site. Some of the offers amazed me...................oh well.
John
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69 280SL 906 Blue
70 280SL 904 Blue
70 280SL 571 Red
70 280SL 040 Black 4-sp
66 230SL 162 Blue/Grey 
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69 280SL 304 Horizon Blue
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Kayvan

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Re: Has the value of our cars tanked???
« Reply #32 on: January 20, 2010, 21:56:35 »
Alex Finigan, a well known vintage Mercedes dealer, recently sold a Silver 113 SL for $150K.

bossanov

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Re: Has the value of our cars tanked???
« Reply #33 on: January 20, 2010, 22:38:37 »
With the downturn in the economy, it is expected that expendable items such as antique cars and other collectables are going to go down in value.  With incomes down and high unemployment, there will be a certain number of collectors who will dump their vehicles causing a drop in the prices.  This is quite evident at the auction shows on TV.  Wayne Carinin of F140 Motorsports (www.f40.com) in Ct. has seen this in a number of the classic cars he has put of for auction recently. Many have not sold and others have sold way below expectations.  Prices will recover once the economy improves.

BYW, the same goes for classic car parts.

Just my $.02.

Regards,
Bossanov

Hath

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Re: Has the value of our cars tanked???
« Reply #34 on: January 21, 2010, 05:05:02 »
I think the best indicator of value are the live auctions where buyers actually get to see and touch the cars in person.  Most of these are sophisticated buyers not emotional buys that are sometimes seen on Ebay.

A nice unrestored (cosmetic only) '67 230sl just sold tonight at Barrett-Jackson in Scottsdale for $38.5k.  Seems like a good price for this car and a sign that values aren't tanking.

Check out lot # 451 at http://www.barrett-jackson.com/application/onlinesubmission/currentcarlist.aspx?aid=304&sd=01/19/2010&ed=01/19/2010




cascadia

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Re: Has the value of our cars tanked???
« Reply #35 on: January 21, 2010, 05:36:19 »
Seems like an very strong price for that particular car.  A friend of mine has a sign in his office that reads "Barrett-Jackson is not a reality TV show!"
Bob in Portland, Oregon.

Mike Hughes

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Re: Has the value of our cars tanked???
« Reply #36 on: January 21, 2010, 17:28:49 »
Pretty car, and $38.5 is a great price for a 4 cylinder automatic 230SL!

« Last Edit: January 21, 2010, 17:33:03 by Mike Hughes »
- Mike Hughes  -ô¿ô-
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Hath

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Re: Has the value of our cars tanked???
« Reply #37 on: January 21, 2010, 18:02:43 »
There are also 2 280SL's coming up to keep an eye on.  Lots 918.1 and 1203.  The weather sucks here in Scottsdale this week - but I don't think that has much impact on the car prices.

mdsalemi

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Re: Has the value of our cars tanked???
« Reply #38 on: January 21, 2010, 23:02:19 »
The bottom line is that the "right" price is what a willing buyer is willing to pay a willing seller for a particular item at a given point in time.  If you find the Pagoda you like at a price you are comfortable with, buy it and enjoy it!  This is probably as good time as there has been recently to get a nice Pagoda at a reasonable price and you have found at least a couple that seem to interest you.

Here's the funny thing about pricing in general, seemingly for today's world.  Timing is everything, unless you are selling a commodity of certain intrinsic value (such as gold).  I've been selling a LOT of stuff on eBay lately--a lot--due to my task of unloading my mother in law's estate for my wife and her sisters.  I've learned a few things--

1)  Timing is everything.  A price too high, just right or too low is not relevant unless somebody is in the market for what you are selling at that time.  Sometimes I've had things listed 3 or 4 weeks, no watchers, no questions--then a bid and it's gone.  My price was not "wrong" with the first 3 listings--there was just nobody looking.
2)  A lot of people don't like the auction process.  Some things I had listed repeatedly in auction format, with little or no watchers or lookers, sold very quickly when moved to "buy it now" format.  I did that because you can list things "until sold" rather than for 7 days...so your item stays out there, searchable, until someone looking for it comes a calling!  I've even bumped the price up a bit and things still sell better on fixed than auction.
3)  Certain items of intrinsic value--Limoges China, Swarovski crystal, Wedgwood, precious metals and coins, Leica Cameras, etc. seem to attract bidders.  So many other things don't, until the last minute if at all.  Move it to fixed, and poof, it's gone.  Pianos almost never sell on eBay.  It seems to be simply an advertising medium.

There was a news article some months back about a school district that had all these portable classrooms for sale.  They listed them on eBay with no minimum and no reserve.  Well someone came in with a bid of a few hundred dollars, and got a bunch of classrooms!  The school board was a bit miffed (they were expecting something like $15,000) but my point is in that 7 day listing period there just wasn't enough active lookers to bring those up to their value.  It does not mean they were only worth $500, but they didn't hit the right people at the right time.  Timing again.  There are people who do nothing but arbitrage these opportunities by searching for auctions about to close with no bids on things they can flip.

I think pricing continues to be all over the place for the Pagodas.  Timing and location matter, too.  Brian Peters may have sold a car for 100K+, but there just are not that many of them in a condition demanding that.  And have you seen parts pricing?  It's getting to COST that much to bring a car to that condition! :o
« Last Edit: January 21, 2010, 23:06:03 by mdsalemi »
Michael Salemi
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1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
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Benz Dr.

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Re: Has the value of our cars tanked???
« Reply #39 on: January 21, 2010, 23:35:36 »
I think they're including the 10% buyers premium on top of the hammer price. So the $35,000.00 sudenly becomes $38,500.00  This is a bit a of trick because next year anyone ( meaning those who don't know ) looking at the results of 2010 sales will see a 10% inflated price on everything and think that's what they sell for. Yes, that's what the guy paid at the end, however by contrast, RM auctions aren't adding the buyers fee at their sales so it's almost slight of hand on the part of BJ. 

 Nice to see that you're leaning towards the price of parts being a deterent to restoration. If you only look at 113 parts you only get part of the pricture. You have to look at ALL of the older cars to see prices trending up and up, sometimes at levels that defy logic or sanity.
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

MichaelB.

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Re: Has the value of our cars tanked???
« Reply #40 on: January 22, 2010, 00:39:56 »
I believe that the buyer who paid $38,500 for that B-J car got a solid deal. I was thinking that $40k would have been the hammer price on it pre-auction. Good looking car, and its a great paint color for certain!

Witt

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Re: Has the value of our cars tanked???
« Reply #41 on: January 22, 2010, 01:09:30 »
......I have no intentions of selling my car, but I just had some, what I think good news: My Collector Car Insurance was just augmented with a " Agreed Value Amendment of a replacement value of $ 37,000.
This of course is somewhat less than what I have invested in the car. It's a hobby and I enjoyed doing the work, but its' comforting to know that in case of a write off I will receive a reasonable amount what I consider fair market value at this time.

I learned my lesson dealing with insurances. When my 1978 911SC got totaled in an accident some seven years ago, no fault of mine, I had to fight tooth and nail to get a good settlement. Which in turn let to the purchase of the Pagoda..........and lived happily ever after.............off and on......

CHEERS !
WITT ! ;)


Benz Dr.

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Re: Has the value of our cars tanked???
« Reply #42 on: January 23, 2010, 00:41:58 »
That car had a cosmetic restoration meaning it was painted, chrome, soft top, interior done. Looking into the engine bay I could see it was clean but nothing special. This means, no engine rebuild, trans, fuel injection, brakes, etc.

Keeping that in mind, it sold very well. Most of these auctions are based upon cars you never get a chance to test drive. You don't even get to hear them run unless you talk to the owner oustside and they have a key to start the engine. You have to give the keys to the auction company so unless they let you start the car or you have an extra set it isn't going to happen. It is, for the most part, how the car looks.

It could end up needing a complete engine build which makes it not such a good deal.
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

66andBlue

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Re: Has the value of our cars tanked???
« Reply #43 on: April 09, 2010, 04:53:31 »
Looks like prices are going up again: $60K for a (over-restored?) manual 250SL - wow!
See: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200455470318
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

bossanov

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Re: Has the value of our cars tanked???
« Reply #44 on: April 09, 2010, 12:39:06 »
Looks like prices are going up again: $60K for a (over-restored?) manual 250SL - wow!
See: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200455470318


At that price, I would have demanded a set of new tires at a minimum.

B.

thelews

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Re: Has the value of our cars tanked???
« Reply #45 on: April 09, 2010, 14:11:17 »
I'm sure Doug (dtuttle) would agree with me that that price was way too low.
Enjoy some pictures at this link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8292359@N06/sets/72157603240571101/show/

John - Wisconsin
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Bernd

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Re: Has the value of our cars tanked???
« Reply #46 on: April 09, 2010, 15:17:49 »
Not to open a can of worms, but what exactly IS overrestored? All of these cars are 40 + years old, and an unadulterated, original 113 that is cosmetically and mechanically totally sound is almost impossible to find, and, if one finds such a car, even harder to pay for. Therefore, just about all 113's on the road today have had extensive resto work done on them. Where does one draw the line between adequate and excessive restoration when so much of what pleases the owner of a car boils down to personal preferences and tastes? Isn't by definition anyone's effort to change or remove age related deterioration on one of these cars already a certain degree of overrestoration? I commend anyone who takes on the task to try and do a good job putting one back on the road, keeping it on the road, or just owning one. They are expensive but it's not just about the money. It becomes, at least in my case, a labor of love,a hobby, a joy, a way to connect with other good folks.

I know this topic has been beaten to death by many folks over the years, and I don't want to create conflict. But I for one would propose that we don't criticize someones' hard work and label it excessive by attaching the word overrestored to it. Most of the SL owners out there, myself included, would probably get a great joy out of owning one of these cars.

graphic66

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Re: Has the value of our cars tanked???
« Reply #47 on: April 09, 2010, 17:25:14 »
I think over restored in this case is referring to the polished stuff on the engine, valve cover, intake, etc.

Carlito

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Re: Has the value of our cars tanked???
« Reply #48 on: April 09, 2010, 17:29:54 »
I "accidently" have logged the results of big auctions of Mercs since august 2007 (RM, Coys, ...).

16 pagoda's where auctioned.

USA: 6 with an average value of 35,933 dollar (25,660 euro)
UK: 8 with an average value of 25,575 pound (33,545 euro)
Europe: 2 with an average value of 27,600 euro

The currencies are converted to euro with the exchange rates from the day of the auction.

When I look at the different types of pagoda thies is the result:

230SL (6): average 32,168, max 94,380, min 12,075
280 SL (10): av. 28,451, max 40,700, min 16,848

MichaelB.

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Re: Has the value of our cars tanked???
« Reply #49 on: April 10, 2010, 02:25:26 »
I'm sure Doug (dtuttle) would agree with me that that price was way too low.

I think it was correctly priced. I prefer a high quality unrestored original (don't we all) but this car is a stunner.