Welded exhaust system ?

[Cees Klumper]

Has anyone been able to remove/refit an exhaust system that was welded front-to-back (rather than fitted with clamps) with the engine in the car? It looks like it might not be possible due to limited space to maneuver.
Thanks!

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[Naj ✝︎]

Cees,
Joe Alexander had done a write-up on how to do this - can't remember if its on this site or yahoo.
Basically, you hang the system with clamps, get all the adjustments right and spot weld at the joints. Then take it off and finish the welding. This is from memory. Some gems may be missing!!

Not sure you would want to weld a stainless system though!

naj

'Kloines Scheisserle'
65 230SL
68 280SL

[ja17]

Hello Cees and Naj,
It is tricky getting those systems in and out in one piece without a lift.  Try jacking up just the back of the car first or jacking only on the right side. You must achieve the correct angle to insert or remove the front pipes by themselves. When you are ready to install the system. Load the suspension on all four wheels.  Assuming you do not have a lift, old car wheels work  good as jack stands under each tire. Stack a 13" diameter on a 14" for more altitude. Or, you can also place jack stands on all four corners of your suspension to load it correctly. If you are installing a new totally welded up system put the front pipes temporarily in place before connecting up the rest of the system. Use jack stands and hangers to temporarily hang and position the rest of the system. Once the exhaust is positioned exactly correct (check for clearence and position), tack weld the entire system in place so that it is rigid. Next, unhook and drop the system down as far as possible so you can weld it all around each pipe. If you are not on a lift you will not be able to remove it completely, but far enough to weld. Re-install the system as a complete unit. It is a lot of trouble but is worth it. You will get a permanent, quiet, rattle and vibration free system installation which you will enjoy for years and years.
For removal without a lift, try lifting the car about 45 deg. on the right side only with the tires on the left still on the ground. Some guys jack up just the rear of the car with the front tires on the ground. You will have to unfasten or cut the pipes at the connection near the transmission. I will try to find my original installation instructions and add them to the string.
If you have a 230-SL with the header style manifolds, the system will drop right out or install without all these special procedures. Good luck Cees.
Joe

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[Cees Klumper]

Thanks guys. I called Van Dijk today and ordered a stainless steel exhaust system - in parts rather than welded front-to-back, so I can fit it for sure, using clamps, which will also allow removal in the future if need be. I am picking it up on Wednesday. Hopefully I can get the car (at least close to) running this week (see my post on "replacing my engine").
If I am not mistaken, modern cars come with exhaust systems clamped rather than welded? If the clamps do a proper job, I can't really see the advantage of welding the whole system together. Clamps would also allow replacement of worn-out sections, rather than requiring replacement of the whole system. What exactly is the advantage of a welded system?

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[George Davis]

Cees, modern cars seem use a mix of clamped and welded systems, but some of the "clamped" joints used now are much better than simply slipping one pipe inside another.

Welding will give the most leak-free system, but the pipes have to be cut to take it apart.  When pipes are slipped together and clamped, they tend to leak unless you tighten the clamps to heroic levels.  This distorts the metal so much that you cannot get the pipes apart again, so you end up having to cut the pipes anyway.  To avoid distorting the metal, you can clamp them "gently", but you'll probably have leaks.

Another way to do it is to cut the pipes to the proper length and weld flanges onto the ends so they can be bolted together with a gasket between.  Any exhaust shop should be able to supply the flanges and gaskets.  This is the easiest joint to take apart, since you just unbolt it, or can cut the bolts if necessary.

Good luck with, and thanks for posting your progress reports on your engine installation.  Sounds like you're having a lot of fun!

George Davis
'69 280 SL Euro manual

[ja17]

Hello Cees,
I am sure there are different stainless systems. Some probably fit better than others. The secret is to get the entire exhaust system in the correct place and keep it there. Your fit and position will only be as good as the guy who made the clamp-up system. A welded system is positioned and then locked into place with permanent welds. Now if you are not an experienced welder, running a good weld bead between  two pipes, while crawling around on the floor under your car, could be a real problem. Welding stainless steel requires some experience also. The originals were all welded. I firmly believe that a properly welded and installed system is the best.  However a good clamp-up system may be better than a not so good weld-up job.
Modern systems were made with less parts and additional hanging points, which helped keep clamped systems from sagging. The original W113 systems had six possible connections to weld or clamp and the bolt-up connection at the front pipes. Every connection is a potential problem which can slip or leak. I use 100%silicone sealer on any clamp-up connection. It helps seal the clamped connections. A clamp-up system should have slits on the outer pipe to help it compress and seal when the clamps are tightened. The original Mercedes style clamps are far less damaging to the metal than the clamps which are most common in the U.S. Some stainless system manufacturers offer stainless steel clamps also.  I made a special tool for installing that outer rubber donut on the rear  muffler, you will see why! Good luck!

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[Cees Klumper]

I picked up the clamped stainless steel exhaust system at Van Dijk's today. I asked them about leaks and what clamps to use. They told me they sell/install about twenty of these systems a year and leaks have never been an issue. They use fairly standard clamps. The joints overlap quite some length. So probably this is a very well-designed and manufactured system. I will use a joining compound like Joe described when I put it together mext week.
I have installed and undone the rear donuts before. I use the largest screwdriver in my garage as a lever, and still it is not easy!

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[rwmastel]

quote:I have installed and undone the rear donuts before. I use the largest screwdriver in my garage as a lever, and still it is not easy!

I believe the proper tool looks like a U-shaped hook, perhaps with a T-handle.

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420