Frigiking air conditioner unit - what to do?

[Jim Donati]

My 1970 280sl has an original dealer installed Frigiking a/c unit that is no longer functioning properly.  I have been told by my local mechanic that because it is  R12 he can no longer service it.  I am told I would have to convert it over to R134 at a considerable cost.   I live on the coast and am not sure I can justify spending 5 figures to get it up and running.

Unless someone has information to enlighten me on how I could get it up and running fairly cheaply, I guess I have 2 choices.
1) I could leave it as it is and do nothing to it or  2) I could remove the under the dash unit and return the interior to the look of a 280SL that never had an A/C installed by the dealer. I am uncertain if there would be any missing parts that would have to be put into the area where the under the dash unit would come out to return the interior to it's factory new condition.   Is there much demand for these Frigiking units that would allow me to sell it off after I remove it?

I would like to keep the car in it's original condition, so I am leaning towards leaving it as it is until I come up with a good solution to get it running.

Thanks
 

[Shvegel]

Hi,
You can try the tried and true conversion kit available at you local chain auto parts store but chances are you have more serious issues than that. Your mechanic has obviously been burned by old AC systems before. After you get buried a couple of times you just estimate it for all the hoses, drier,expansion valve etc.  There is a good market for your used unit provided it is removed completely and in a gentle manner. It would also help to document the removal with some pictures. Others here would have more knowledge about what exactly constitutes a "Complete" unit. Besides the under dash unit you would need to remove the compressor,compressor bracket, receiver drier and it's bracket, Condensers, Idler pulley, crank pulley(i think?)and any wiring.  All that with all the bolts in good condition will fetch around $1500 to $2000USD.

 If I was on the west coast I would offer you some R-12 from my secret stash but 2000 miles is a bit too far for that.

[Jim Donati]

thank you for that information, is it true that it is not illegal for an individual to recharge R12 units yourself, but that you cannot commmercialy repair or recharge older R12 units?

If that is true, I may want to think twice before I remove my older unit.

[hauser]

Buds Bens has a system available for the Pagoda.  It comes as a complete unit but you can keep the original unit in the car.  I am planning on doing this with my car.

[abe280SL]

How about using Red-tek R12a which is compatible with either R12 or  R134a? Do an internet search and you will find lotsof info. I think the first thing I would do is replace all the hoses....source of leak.  Then try this stuff...you can learn to charge the system yourself.
abe

[Tom Colitt]

Hi Jim

Nothing will work as well as R12 in your system. If you are not too far from Los Angeles (that's where I am), maybe you can have a "friend" show you how to put real R12 into your system.... It probably couldn't hurt to have an AC shop do a leak test first and hold a vacuum at least over night to make sure it is worth putting valuable R12 in first....

Best, Tom
tcolt@netzero.com

[hauser]

You're better off upgrading to a rotary compressor with a Sanden unit.  It's been done and the results are worrth it.

[graphic66]

You can buy r12 on ebay most of the time. I charged my old r12 system with 134a using a conversion filling hose I made. Not so cool, really didn't work great. I used a refrigerant vacuum and vacuumed the system for a few hours with a heat lamp on the accumulator. I did find a small leak on the accumulator itself, a touch of silver solder and it was fixed. After vacuuming a few hours and having it hold a vacuum for 30 minutes I charged it with 1 1/2 cans of old stock R12. WOW, this thing is cold, it has held now for two years and works perfect. My system is the Buds Benz Fidgette one. I have the old Kuhlmiester unit, I would like to use that underdash unit with my fridgette pump and condensor because the unit looks real "Cool". Don't give up, get a vacuum pulled on your system while warming the accumulator, check for leaks and put in some R12, you will be happy.

[Jim Donati]

Thanks everyone for all the suggestions and ideas that each of you have offered.  It sounds like I do have choices to make.  I will continue to monitor this item for a while before I commit myself to any corrective measures.

Jim

[scoot]

My local AC shop has R12 and will work on your AC.  It's in Pasadena - Crown City Radiator and AC.  With respect to the legality of doing stuff with R12 - I think the issues is evacuating R12 without capturing it.  That's not good to do.

[scoot]

You're better off upgrading to a rotary compressor with a Sanden unit.  It's been done and the results are worrth it.

I realized that this has probably been asked and answered, but I'll ask again - is there a FAQ on switching to rotary compressors, which Sanden unit, do I need to buy different brackets or belts, etc?   I would like to do this in my 250 SL (which has KuhlMeister) and also in my 250 C 114 car which has some big old York in the trunk that the owner removed.  But I still have the bracket, etc.   Thanks, scott

[SteveK]

Scott, go on e-bay and type in "Sanden, York" and you will find a number of outfits selling Sanden compressors with brackets that are set up to fit exactly where your York use to be.  I have not done it yet, but plan on it being a next winter project. 

[The Hawaiian]

Buds Bens has a system available for the Pagoda.  It comes as a complete unit but you can keep the original unit in the car.  I am planning on doing this with my car.

I don't understand, do they have something that goes in place of the heater, or do the components go into the old frigking box?

[Dash808]

Howzit, The Hawaiian!
Nice to finally see someone else close by.  I'm just down the street from you in Waipio.  You don't happen to own a white 280sl do you?
Welcome to the site!

[The Hawaiian]

No my car is a Light Beige 1970 280SL with a Bamboo leather interior.  I live in Mililani.  Nice to know others are in Hawaii and I can lament the high cost of shipping parts to the islands.  At least we get to drive our cars year round!

[Dash808]

Hey, did we happen to meet at Pearl Harbor NEX in the parking lot of the outdoor furniture & garden shop a few years ago?  Briefly talked about paint shops...? 
I also saw a nice beige 280sl at Kapiolani tennis courts about 6 months ago.

A few more of us and we can have our own PUB.   HNL 2011 

[Ric Garland]

Can't resist adding my 2 cents. I had numerous York failures on my 108 chassis 69 280S, so bought the AC kit from Bud's and put on the new support bracket to carry the Sanden compressor. First benefit - less noise and vibration when AC on,and no drop in RPM when compressor engages. Definitely change your hoses -the R12 hoses do not tolerate R134 which seeps through the hose wall.New hoses and clean restrictor valve and dryer and I get a measured 50 degree temp drop in two minutes.

I duplicated the mounting plate and have the Sanden to go into my 71 280SL - just have to relocate the alternator lower on the rhs of the block. Ric Garland north of Montreal.

[Garry]

Hey Chan,

Like the idea of a gathering in Hawaii, easy to get to for both Australian and West Coast USA people!!!

Garry

[RickM]

R12 should still be available to most shops...but at a price considerably higher than other refrigerants. I doubt you can buy it on Ebay without being certified. If you have a few dollars and a couple hours you can get the proper credentials. Here's one example: http://www.epatest.com/609/openbook/

There are quite a few replacement products including propane (no. not kidding) . The issue with these substitutes is that they are quite volatile. Some argue that gasoline is as well and that any leak of a flammable refrigerant would disperse before posing a threat. Another negative is that they are not approved by the EPA.

Using 134 in place of R12 will work but not optimally unless the proper components are put into place. Here's a great site with an overview of what the system is comprised of.... http://www.ackits.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=01&Category_Code=BlackDeath.

They are also a great source for DIY advice, tools and the proper replacement/upgrade compressors and other system components. Especially interesting are their parallel flow condensers which are quite a bit more efficient than the older units.... http://www.ackits.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=01&Category_Code=Parallel

[graphic66]

I tried both 134 and r12. I just made a filling hose by cutting the r12 hose and splicing on the 134 hose. Left it in for a while with poor results, not that cold. I did a full evacuation with a heat source on the dryer while vacuuming the system for several hours. I filled the system with about 1 1/2 cans of R12, which by the way can be easily bought on Ebay with nothing more than an Ebay account. Just search R12, you will see what I mean. I also walked into an auto parts store while in Tennessee a few years back and asked about R12. The counter person produced a case of the small cans and asked how many I wanted at about $20.00 each. It is very easy to get, not real cheap, but it works in my Buds Benz system incredibly well. I have been using that fill of R12 for about 3 years now and it will freeze you out of the car. I have not been impressed with any modern car using the 134 stuff except for a rental Hyundai compared to older R12 systems. It is just not as cold. 
   My Buds Benz system is from the mid eighty's I believe. I have the records, but I know it was meant to have R12. It was in the car when I purchased it. 
   A strange thing happened after pulling the vacuum and filling the system with expensive R12, I spotted a tiny leak on the accumulator [dryer]. It was next to a small brass plug. I was very upset, I knew all my R12 was on it's way to Al Gores nostrils. I grabbed my soldering gun in desperation. I sat there about an hour dabbing solder and flux on that leak while under pressure. I miraculously got the solder to take and it has held ever since. 
   Now for my thread Hijack, I need a mount for my accumulator. It is just flopping around under the hood. I need a mount like the one used on an ignition coil because of where it needs to mount. Any ideas?

[awolff280sl]

Hi Graphic66, I found the kind of mount that you are looking for from a boat parts supplier on the internet. Can't remember which one nor what it is normally used for. Good thing is that it's stainless steel. You can also check Classic Auto Air at http://www.classicautoair.com/ They have lots of good stuff for the job, including a "short" accumulator that I was able to mount vertically without it hitting the hood.