Getrag 265 - 5 Speed Conversion

[mkbull]

if we could find one at a reasonable price ... with a removable bellhousing ... readily availabe parts  and able to take the torque then a six speed would be a great solution but nothing ticks all the boxes better than the 5 speed 265.
The big problem is that these boxes and associated parts have become increasingly difficult to find and accordingly more expensive. when I originally purchased my box it was £250 so even with all the other parts needed it was a very affordable and excellent performance upgrade.
Considering the possible end of any availability of 265's at sensible prices I belive the best way forward would be to develop a kit based on the tremec 5 or 6 speed boxes.
these are truly magnificent manual boxes capable of handling insane amounts of torque and due to their high volume manufacture - very reasonably priced. im presently installing a tremec magnum rated to 700hp in a latest project car.  cobrazone.com
Best regards Mark

[GGR]

The Tremec Magnum is a great transmission but it is in another league when it comes to size and weight. One should ensure it clears the Pagoda's tunnel before considering it. Attached are a couple of pictures comparing the Magnum with the Getrag 265. Also a couple of picture of my current project.

Nice Cobra project you have there!

[mkbull]

I never said it would be easy. 
the length is not a real problem, plus the tremec accommodates alternative positions for the shifter.
the geometry is undoubtedly an issue and could be a deal breaker but if it could be done it would be the ultimate solution...

[Shvegel]

Mark,
Just looked at your Cobra project.  Beautiful job.

Having made a custom cast aluminum bellhousing before I think I would look at grafting a Mercedes(mid 70's 5 speed?) and a Tremec LS bell together before I would scratch build a new one. That way your only machining would be to mill the assembly into parallel.  That being said if you made a completely new casting I would guess that modern software could size the plug up to account for shrinkage of the aluminum when cast and CAD machining would make machining the complex mating surface of the Tremec an easy task but I could only imagine what it would cost to develop the files.

"That will be 15,000USD for the first one and 1000USD for each one after that."

[cfm65@me.com]

Hi Gents,
Seeing that the Getrag 265 is getting scarse and more expensive by the day, is there perhaps a smaller Gertag that would be suitable for the 230 SL and 250 SL? Clearly the Pagodas dont really put out enough HP to warrant the capability of the 265, would a 240 or such not be suitable?
Regards
Chris

[Shvegel]

The 265 has a removable bellhousing which makes it easy to fit to the original bellhousing from Mercedes.  Having to make or modify a bellhousing makes it so much more complex.

[guyke]

whitch one do we need now , the doglegg version , or the overdrive version   , my gues is the dogleg version whit ratio 1:1 in 5th gear  265/5
please correct me if im wrong   
many 265/5 ore sold as 262.0.510.00
the 265/6 can be easy found in germany for around 600 euro

[hauser]

The 265 has a removable bellhousing which makes it easy to fit to the original bellhousing from Mercedes.  Having to make or modify a bellhousing makes it so much more complex.

I have a direct hook up no adapter using a AMG belhousing.

[cfm65@me.com]

Hi Guyke,
No, I would prefer the overdrive version. I used to have an E Type with a dogleg and did not like it. Is the 265 the only one with a seperate bell?
600EU is a lot of money and a looong way to ship, if you are from the tip of Africa. As I mentioned, the early Pagodas dont really punch out a lot of power, therefor my question re smaller Getrag boxes.
Does the 265 fit directly to a Pagoda bell or is small modifications required?
Regards
Chris

[Shvegel]

Mark makes a kit.  The Getrag 265 requires what is essentially an adapter plate that is 17mm thick and a bushing for the pilot shaft where it fits into the end of the crankshaft.  I started down that path myself but Mark did a better job with it so I bought his kit.

[guyke]

i was asking what type of getrag because they say that there is a bad version somewere in these topic

[114015]

Hello Guyke,

There is no bad version as such of the Getrag 265. 

The Getrag 265/6 is the one with overdrive fifth (0.813) to go for if you want to reduce revs.
The Getrag 265/5 had got the dogleg 5th and a 1.0 ratio.
You could use that one as a nice "overdrive 5th" as well if you combine that gearbox with the 3,27 rear end. 
But that makes 2 conversions necessary for you: gearbox and rear end (axle).

I do not exacty know whether you can use the dogleg gearbox with the conversion kit from Mark as well, but I would guess so. But there's no shift ball available for the Pagoda with dogleg 265.


Love the 5-speed - go for it !

Achim
(1971 230 W114 4-spd auto)

[gordon]

The 265 is certainly robust. I converted my 6.3 ltr Jensen from auto to manual and it copes with the power without problems (80 mph, 2000 revs in 5th gear)
Conversion  of my auto 113 to Getrag 265 is progressing (slowly)

[Raymond]

Guyke,
The 265/6 is your best bet.  The next closest option is the Tremec T5 which is also no longer available but were made in much larger numbers than the Getrag.  They were also made in several different gearing applications for everything from Astons to Jeeps.  My conversion used a base T-5 from a '93 Chevrolet S10 V6.  The first gear is much better than the Mercedes G-72 and 2,3 & 4 match the G-72 and 5th is a .76 overdrive.  With my 4.08 differential, I'm turning 76 mph at 3,000 RPM. 

I gave my drawings and research to David and Brad at Bud's Benz who made several improvements and created a modified gearbox they now sell as a kit.  (I have no financial interest in it)  I believe the kit is under $5K USD installed.  Don't know what the shipping price is.

 Because of the length of the 5th gear tail shaft, the Buds conversion does not use a flex disc.  This is a minor problem if you choose the wrong gear at low revs.  My T-5 is also a bit noisier than the Getrag but our cars aren't quiet to begin with.  I have a Getrag in my BMW E30 and I'm far more likely to miss a 3rd gear speed shift with that than my T-5.

[114015]

Conversion  of my auto 113 to Getrag 265 is progressing (slowly)

Yes, Gordon,
But it can be done. 
My friend Heinrich did that, converted their 280 auto to 5-speed stick shift (Getrag).
One of the biggest challenges was to collect all the missing parts, especially the clutch pedal assembly, etc.
Not everything from the sedan (W108) can be used without change.

Please note:
Don't forget to re-balance the engine for the clutch's flywheel !
Perhaps not as mandatorily urgent as with an M127II, but also necessary here !

Good luck,

Achim

[guyke]

so the chase is on for the 256/6 , i found 6 in germany jesterday from 400 euro to 1500 euro , some people dont know wat its worth i thing ,
wat kost the conversion kit from england i saw many prices coming along also in this topic , maybe that the person ho makes them could reply please , thanks

[gordon]

Did they have a speedo drive on the tail? ( I doubt it at a price of 400 euro's)  If you can get one with speedo drive it will save a lot of hassle later.

Mark Bull does the conversion kit I think. (Mkbull)

[guyke]

jou just have to know were to look gordon , im an internet search junky who knows were to look
do jou have a picture from that speedo drive please ?
 

[gordon]

Here goes with some photos of GM/Jaguar boxes. The red/coloured insert is the speedo drive.

[guyke]

found a getrag 265 for 200 euro in germany 
they stil can be found sheap
and found numerous getrag 265 for around 700 a 800 euro , those ho still need one pm me i will share the link to the seller ( in germany)

[mkbull]

The conversion kit is still available (£400 delivered) if anyone needs one just get in touch.
Regards
Mark

[PagodaMafia]

Hi All, ended up taking a gamble on a 6 speed gearbox from Siegfried (german engineer) based in Poland, it is basically a BMW e90 box with fabricated bell housing and some very innovative adapter kit. It arrived from europe last week and we will be fitting in the in next month after xmas. The whole kit to convert my 4 speed 280 SL to a 6 speed delivered to by door in Sydney, Australia was around 7000 EURO which lot more than Marks option but will post some updates and start a seperate thread if anyone is interested?

[JamesL]

Yes please!

[hauser]

YES!! Please do.

[PagodaMafia]

Hi All, please find some pictures from the my 6 speed conversion still some interior work to do but wow .. acceleration is smooth and soooo much stronger. Will be testing out using GPS/Digital speed in the next few days. @ 110 km per hour it sits on around 2200 rpm and so gentle. Wife loves it.