Author Topic: engine location (Read 13987 times)

rob walker · « **on:** October 08, 2009, 09:58:02 »

Having just made a 1200 km road trip from the UK down to South Spain, the car is running superbly with no further misfire issues (123 Dist a must for anyone with poor running)

However toward the end of the trip I have noticed that the front of the timing chain cover is touching the bonnet (hood) and has made a small bulge in it.
It had all new engine mountings last year, any ideas on what could cause this?

menesesjesse · « **Reply #1 on:** October 08, 2009, 12:09:39 »

This could be several things I believe. The motor mounts may be loose. Check this first. When I replaced my motor I noticed that when I lifted the car the motor would change position based on the fact that it is attached to the subframe. Maybe your subframe mounts are worn or your springs may be sagging causing the motor to move up over rough road conditions. Just a guess but may help you find the problem.
jesse

mbzse · « **Reply #2 on:** October 08, 2009, 12:10:08 »

Quote from: rob walker on October 08, 2009, 09:58:02

However toward the end of the trip I have noticed that the front of the timing chain cover is touching the bonnet (hood) and has made a small bulge in it.
It had all new engine mountings last year, any ideas on what could cause this?

Ensure that your engine mount arms are marked "127 SL", as these differ from the arms used in the sedan models of the era.
If you have sedan parts, your engine will rest too high in the engine compartment of an SL
/Hans in Sweden

Naj ✝︎ · « **Reply #3 on:** October 08, 2009, 12:14:24 »

Maybe the rear (gearbox) mounting has collapsed and the engine has tipped at the back?

Also check the subframe mounting rubbers. These have been known to collapse and cause your problem.
No doubt the front fender to wheel gap will confrim this...

naj

ja17 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 11, 2009, 13:51:34 »

Hello,

Yes Hans is correct. If sedan engine side supports are used, the hood will clear until you hit a bump in the road, then the engine hits the "bonnet".

Ron · « **Reply #5 on:** October 13, 2009, 15:55:30 »

Hi, could anyone with the correct setup, that is proper side supports on engine, measure the oil pan to crossmember clearance? Mine is 17mm, using an allen wrench and sliding it under the pan. That seems close enough for proper spacing, and my hood is not dented by the engine. But I'm pretty sure I do not have the correct side supports.

If we know the proper pan to crossmember clearance, then we can check if we're about to dent the hood!

Thanks, Ron

ja17 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 14, 2009, 01:52:23 »

Hello Ron,

Maybe you have not hit a big enough bump yet? Check the casting numbers on the engine side support to be sure.

Ron · « **Reply #7 on:** October 14, 2009, 13:58:06 »

Hi Joe, the sad thing is, I've never driven the car! I've been assembling it out of boxes for a year. The hood has one dent in it, pushed down toward the engine, but not over the engine (the hood is off the car). Inside the hood, there are no scratches or dents from the engine. The only clue I had something could be wrong is the valve cover is difficult to put on, I have to jack the car, which lowers the sub frame and engine.

The casting number on the left side support is: 127 223 1004 K1. I looked it up in a SL parts book and that is not correct. Nor does it have "SL" or two pedestals for the fuel filter and pressure regulator. It has one pedestal, and the PO put both those units on that one, using 2 bolts only. The right side support has no numbers that I can see. I just put the engine in last month and am sad that I have to deal with those supports already. If they must be changed, I hope they can come out without the engine being pulled.

So if I can't find 2 proper supports, it seems I could grind down the ends that go to the motor mounts and lower the engine that way, correct? The ends could have some metal easily removed.

How low should it sit? As I said before, I can slide a 17 mm allen between the cross member and the pan, that is flat to flat between the cross member and pan.

Ron

saygold · « **Reply #8 on:** October 14, 2009, 15:02:41 »

The casting numbers in the engine support arms for my '66 230 SL are as follows:

Left Right
Top of engine support arm: 127 SL 127

Bottom of engine support arm: 12722312 04K 12722311 04K1

Is the right support arm correct, or do I need to find one with SL on it?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Ken Deter
'66 230SL (euro, 4-speed)

mbzse · « **Reply #9 on:** October 14, 2009, 16:45:43 »

Ken and Forum,
Those part No:s for your engine support arms right and left are indeed correct, verified per the Mercedes W113 Chassis and Body spare parts list [102 02]
/Hans in Sweden

Quote from: saygold on October 14, 2009, 15:02:41

The casting numbers in the engine support arms for my '66 230 SL are as follows:
        Left    Right
  Top of engine support arm:      127 SL 127
  Bottom of engine support arm: 127 223 1204K 127 223 1104K1
Is the right support arm correct, or do I need to find one with SL on it?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Ken Deter
'66 230SL (euro, 4-speed)

114015 · « **Reply #10 on:** October 14, 2009, 17:50:48 »

Hello Ron,

Hans is of course right with the numbers and descriptions - as usual.

The 127 223 1104 is the correct left side and the 1204 the right side motor mounting arm.

I am not aware of any number like "127 223 1004 K1"

but I know that the early 230SLs had earlier numbers which I "remember" from my memories end up with 0704 and 0804.

Those supports are basically identical with the numbers Hans listed.
The early left side support had indeed only one pedestal which was for both, fuel filter and pressure regulator. So, that's correct on yours.
But you might want to check the numbers on the support arms again.

BTW, what car do you have and what kind of engine? Is it a 220SE engine? This "might" explain the seldom number you found.

I go and confirm the "early style" numbers tonight with the early parts lists.

Best,

JamesL · « **Reply #11 on:** October 14, 2009, 19:20:08 »

On topic title alone.....

in the front!!!!

(perhaps I have spent too long lusting after old 911s)

Ron · « **Reply #12 on:** October 14, 2009, 23:08:14 »

Hi Achim,

Your memory is great, I have a SL parts book, issue 10 126, and it indeed list your numbers 0704 and 0804. The way I read the book, for the left side these numbers are possible:

0704, 0804, and 1204, the latter being the replacement for either of the first two.

For the right side:

0604, 0904, and 1104, the latter being the replacement for either of the first two.

The book says teh 1104 and 1204 should be replaced "together", so I think they are a pair.

I priced the two at the local dealer, about $230 each.

On mine, I'm thinking I should grind down the contact point where they meet the motor mount, IF the motor is too high. I'd still like to hear from someone as to the distance between the oil pan and crossmember on a car that is correct. Or if I have side mounts that will work via a number match, then I'll leave them be.

Maybe you'll find something as to my number for the left mount, Achim, thanks,

Ron

PS as to my engine, I think it is a replacement block. It has the complete VIN number of my car carefully stamped where the engine number should be. The engine tag above the alternator has:

TellN. 127 010 4100 80
Aggregat 342855

114015 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 16, 2009, 20:55:45 »

Dear Ron,

Sorry please, no new numbers from my side. The engine arm numbers you found in the parts book (10126 - yes, that's the correct one) are correct.

Yes, you have an ordinary factory replacement engine, indicated by the number 127 010 41 00 (which you can find in that parts list as well ...

)

This number plate should be below 5th and 6th spark plug above the oil filter cannister ... I think that is what you mean.

So, the first thing is now to check your engine support number again. Can't believe it reads 127 223 1004.

Please, what is the number on the other arm?

The distance between oil pan and front axle frame (crossmember) is not a good indicator anyway. This distance is heavily depending on the condition of the rubber mounts below the engine support arms. Those wear nicely with the decades...

If you find out that your motor support arms are not correct, I recommend there's only one solution: Get the correct ones.
Why not ask Dr. Benz if he has a set?

Good luck!
& best,

Achim

Ron · « **Reply #14 on:** October 20, 2009, 15:47:28 »

Hi Achim, in answer to your question, there is no number on the right side arm. I could never find one, even when it was off the engine!

I've decided to take your advice, and purchase a set of arms with the correct numbers. They should arrive by the end of this week, and I hope they are not difficult to install with the engine in the car.

I'll post here how much it changes the engine height. BTW, I have new engine (rubber) mounts in the car. Ron

waqas · « **Reply #15 on:** October 20, 2009, 16:14:00 »

Quote from: Ron on October 20, 2009, 15:47:28

... I hope they are not difficult to install with the engine in the car.

Very easy to do in fact.

Completely loosen motor mount bolts, where the arms attach to the rubber mounts.
Slightly loosen all the nuts holding the arms to the motor block, by a quarter turn or so.
Disconnect the fuel filter housing and the fuel return damper from the left arm. I find it much easier to remove the filter first, in order to reach the nuts from below. If you do this, good time to replace the fuel filter and rubber seal for the canister.
Place a piece of wood (at least an inch think) on a hydralic jack and slightly raise the motor from under the oil pan.
Replace each arm, one at a time. Tighten nuts by hand, with the motor raised.
Make sure your hydraulic jack stays up the entire time (re-pump it if it has a slow leak or something).
Lower engine back in place, torque all 8 nuts and 2 bolts holding arms in place.

Some other details:

In general, this is a good time to check your motor mounts, and replace them if necessary (I realize that yours are new).
The two bolts holding the arms to the rubber mounts should have a large wavy lock washer (do not use a split-lock washer-- it will damage the soft alloy of the arms).
The eight nuts holding the arms to the block should have special flat washers. Make sure these are all in place. MB still sells all these parts new.
In the case of a 280 SL, one may need to loosen the fan shroud so it doesn't interfere when the motor (and correspondingly, the fan) is raised.

Hope this helps you or someone else.

stickandrudderman · « **Reply #16 on:** October 20, 2009, 23:46:05 »

In response to th OP.
I suspect frontsub-frame mountings.

66andBlue · « **Reply #17 on:** November 03, 2009, 02:38:55 »

Here are pictures of the arms on an early 280SL engine (M130-283-10-001928) with all the markings as described by Hans and Saygold.

tel76 · « **Reply #18 on:** November 03, 2009, 22:03:10 »

I have a LH and RH brand new arms for the 280sl if anyone is interested,enthusiastic bid plus postage would secure.

News:

Author Topic: engine location (Read 13987 times)

rob walker

saygold