Author Topic: How one Pagoda turned into four..  (Read 32557 times)

twistedtree

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How one Pagoda turned into four..
« on: January 14, 2010, 02:36:07 »
I promised to tell the story of how the search for my first Pagoda turned into a purchase of four and a couple of rooms full of parts.

I suppose like everyone here, I've been a car enthusiast since I was a kid, and was quite obsessed through my 20's.  Along the way I worked on many cars both for myself and professionally, but very little on Mercedes.  They were just out of my reach.  My most extensive projects were full restorations of a BMW 2002, and a '63 E-Type.  Then along came kids and other aspects of life took over.  I finally sold the E-Type to put an addition on my house.  That was 20 years ago and until now cars have just been tools for me.

I always loved the Pagodas and started thinking about getting an older car again.  Then for Xmas and my 50th, my wife gave me one.  Not an actual one, but she set the gears in motion and engaged a friend who's a car buyer to try to find one.

I did a ton of research to get myself caught up, and found this awesome site along the way (THANKS!!).  Then just after Christmas I went off on an overnight road trip to look at cars.  I saw two that were very shinny, but were much more rusted than I expected for a car in the $35k to $45 asking price range.  "Lipstick on a pig" is the expression that comes to mind. I was planning to come home the next morning when I finally tracked down the person on a withdrawn ad for a 280SL that needed restoration.  Originally I was hoping for a car that had already received a quality restoration, not one going in, but in my opinion the two "high quality" cars that I has seen the day before were both on their way into, not out of restoration, so I figured I had nothing to lose.

When I saw the advertised car, it was tattered and neglected, but the body was in MUCH better shape than either of the cars I had seen the day before.  Even with chrome, paint, and an interior, I'd still be ahead with this "junker".  Then the old guy who was selling it said "let me show you, let me show you", and took me in the garage where there was another 280 in even better shape than the first, along with spare engines, transmissions, rear axles, etc, etc..  But he kept going "let me show you, let me show you", and led me out back where there was a third 250 in the yard.  And again, "let me show you, let me show you", and he opened up a shed and there was a fourth 230.  Then he showed me the rooms (yes, plural) in the basement full of heads, seats, wheels, hard tops, chrome, pistons, injector pumps, oil pans, etc.  So the visit that almost didn't happen turned into 4 hours of pouring over the cars and parts.

All the cars turned out to be in fundamentally sound condition, but all were quite neglected and in need of chrome, portions of interiors, and varying degrees of repainting, but rust-wise (what I care about the most) all were in pretty good shape - certainly better than the $35k to $45K cars I saw the day before.  On closer inspection, the 280 in the garage and the 250 were actually 230's with replacement engines and trunk badges to match, but the serial numbers and drum rear brakes gave them away as 230's.  One had original front fenders and eyelash notched.  The 230 that was badged as a 230 is an early one (#1946) with an automatic and the old trunk floor with a well for the spare, original manuals, original data card, matching numbers, original owner delivery receipt, 66k documented miles, tool kits, etc.  I almost peed myself.

To make a long story short, with a little haggling I bought everything.  It took 4 days to get everything out of the house, basement, garage, shed, and yard and moved to my brother's house about 50 miles away.  All the cars were frozen in place and had to be winched free.  Then I started trailering them to my place in Vermont.  I've got two moved so far, but am taking a break for some other commitments over the next couple of weeks and will resume in February.

My wife has mostly recovered and will probably never give me another present again, but this one makes it all worth while.
Peter Hayden
1964 MB 230SL
1970 MB 280SL
2011 BMW 550xi

bpossel

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Re: How one Pagoda turned into four..
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2010, 03:13:58 »
Hello twistedtree,

What a great story!!!  This is one for the record and one for the "Star".
Maybe you could post some pics of all of your new family members.
Keep us posted.
Congrats!
Bob

Louis

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Re: How one Pagoda turned into four..
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2010, 03:27:32 »
twistedtree ,

What a great story and re-entry back into the hobby. I'm sure most would agree , this hobby is a real adventure. The places , the people , the toys themselves. It's all good ....Good luck with your new toys.....



RickM

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Re: How one Pagoda turned into four..
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2010, 15:08:53 »
Great story!

lurtch

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Re: How one Pagoda turned into four..
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2010, 17:09:19 »
WAY TO GO, twistedtree!     You may have set the record for Pagoda acquisitions! 

I sounds like you  are now infected with the rare "lovepagodas" virus. This is a serious condition but you are in good company because everyone who posts on this website has the same problem. Be advised: It will only get more intense  - -  AND there is no known cure!  There is a healing therapy group that meets in Ohio every other year. The tonic is named Blacklick.  See you there in 2011.

Welcome the the Pagoda Brotherhood,

Regards,   Larry in CA
Larry Hemstreet  in  N. Cal.

1966  230SL  (restored) Met. Anthracite w/ Maroon leather
1981  300TD-T (Concours condition, 86K, GETRAG 5sp.)
1982  300TD-T (parted out)
1986  560SEC (totaled)
1991  300TE (gifted)
1998  E320 (sold)
2004  E320 wagon (gifted)
2008  CLK550 Cabriolet

dtuttle123

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Re: How one Pagoda turned into four..
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2010, 21:57:05 »
I'm surprised no one has asked how "twistedtree" got his name? :o   I'm also supprised that he hasn't gotten his first request for spare parts from the forum members that are circling like seagulls over kids eatting french fries! 8)

I think this is a great 'barn find', and may top any that we may have (or have made up)!  We're here to help and offer advice, but you must show us some photos!

twistedtree

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Re: How one Pagoda turned into four..
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2010, 22:57:34 »
Yes, I know I'm rapidly descending the slippery slope, and you guys are just pushing me down faster and faster :o  But where can you get more fun than this?

Twistedtree is the nick-name for my farm in Vermont where my shop is.
Peter Hayden
1964 MB 230SL
1970 MB 280SL
2011 BMW 550xi

m300cab

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Re: How one Pagoda turned into four..
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2010, 06:06:50 »
glad i was able to help
a few details were left out!

Michael Parlato

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Re: How one Pagoda turned into four..
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2010, 07:28:18 »
OK, I'll be the first rude one to ask. How much??? Depress us all please!
James L
Oct69 RHD 280 in DB906 with cognac leather

twistedtree

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Re: How one Pagoda turned into four..
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2010, 00:34:30 »
OK, I'll be the first rude one to ask. How much??? Depress us all please!

Not rude.  I think it's useful to compare notes on the market.  I paid $55k USD for the lot.  I saw it as $5k for the parts, and $12.5k for each car.  All of them need at least paint, chrome, and interiors which isn't cheap.  I think it was a fair to generous price, especially given the risk in buying 4 cars where I couldn't run or drive any of them.

I'm interested in other thoughts?
Peter Hayden
1964 MB 230SL
1970 MB 280SL
2011 BMW 550xi

dtuttle123

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Re: How one Pagoda turned into four..
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2010, 01:16:11 »
I think this will be a once in a lifetime experience - which is 'priceless'!   You alone have bragging rights to having bought (4) Pagodas at the same time.  We don't exactly what you bought, but you may find out that the parts are a lot more valuable than $5K.

Once you get everything in Vermont, and sorted out, we would interested in your strategy - pick 1 car and part out the other 3, or keep 2 and part out the other 2?  Or restore one car every 5 years (4 X 5 = 20 years)?  How does a parent choose a child?

DaveB

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Re: How one Pagoda turned into four..
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2010, 01:17:22 »
I agree that's a fair to generous price, good for both buyer and seller. It's a lot of work but it sounds like you are up to it. With all the parts you could probably make that 230 perfect, sell the excess parts, sell one or two of the other cars (keeping the best of them as a future project) and not be too far behind.

m300cab: it would be interesting to hear your background as an MB afficionado and parts packrat!
DaveB
'65 US 230sl 4-speed, DB190

twistedtree

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Re: How one Pagoda turned into four..
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2010, 01:21:26 »
m300cab: it would be interesting to hear your background as an MB afficionado and parts packrat!

Mike's the guy who knows the seller who connected me with the opportunity, so he gets lots of thanks.
Peter Hayden
1964 MB 230SL
1970 MB 280SL
2011 BMW 550xi

JamesL

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Re: How one Pagoda turned into four..
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2010, 18:43:51 »
I think I'd put one back original and have a little fun with another.... Newer seats, etc so that you have a more modern take on the old.

For comparison..... I paid more than that for my RHD in 2003. OK, it didn't need all new chrome or any restoration at the time but..... well done and HAPPY new year


Has the wife forgiven you yet ort is she off to the jewellers to buy a diamond.....
James L
Oct69 RHD 280 in DB906 with cognac leather

twistedtree

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Re: How one Pagoda turned into four..
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2010, 21:50:24 »
My wife has recovered, but I'll be hearing about this from time to time for the rest of my life.

Right now I expect all 4 cars will return to the road - I just don't know in what condition.  I was primarily after the 280 with 4-speed, so that's where I'll start.  I plan to get it cleaned up and running in time to use it over the summer.  From there I'll decide where to take that car.  Then I'll clean up and get the others running.  I think that's the best way to assess their real condition.  Once condition is known, I can figure out where to go next, what parts can be sold and which I might need, etc.

By the way, only time will tell whether I get bragging rights or a dunce cap - the jury will be out on that for a while.
Peter Hayden
1964 MB 230SL
1970 MB 280SL
2011 BMW 550xi

PnHi

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Re: How one Pagoda turned into four..
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2010, 00:26:49 »
Hope you took pictures as he was opening the time capsules. 

twistedtree

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1970 280SL comes to life
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2010, 00:35:39 »
Here's a quick update.  I now have 3 of the 4 cars back at my shop in Vermont.  I started on the '70 280 to see what it would take to get it road worthy.  The first step was the go through the fuel system, and I discovered a very cruddy fuel tank.  I've pulled it out and am still scratching my head a bit on how to proceed with it.  I've read through the posts of tank cleaning, but discovered that radiator shops won't touch gas tanks anymore (they won't boil them clean like they used to), and the only shop I've found that will work on them actually ships them out to Canada for cleaning and lining.  Right now I'm leaning towards cleaning and lining it myself.

With that set aside, I replaced the fuel filter, put in new plugs a wires (wires were completely shot), replaced the battery, hooked the radiator hose back up and filled with coolant, and rigged up a temporary fuel supply and guess what?  It fired right up and idled as smooth as silk.  It hesitates and sputters when goosed, but hey, it runs!  Not bad for a little over a days work.

I also replaced the master and slave clutch cylinders, but while removing the reservoir for cleaning, the metal feed line broke right off where it goes through the firewall.  Can you say "rust"?

This car is probably in the worst condition of the batch, but it's got a 4-speed which I really like.  The next day I gave it a sponge bath inside and out and it cleaned up pretty well.  I'm not scared to sit in it any more.

No I need to fabricate a clutch line and un-seize the wiper spindles.  Oh, and there's still that darn fuel tank to deal with, but it's getting close.

Here's a picture of the car just before I picked it up, then two shots of it back in my shop.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2010, 01:35:32 by twistedtree »
Peter Hayden
1964 MB 230SL
1970 MB 280SL
2011 BMW 550xi

twistedtree

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1964 230SL comes to life - sort of....
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2010, 01:28:28 »
After getting stalled behind the fuel tank on the 280, I decided to shift focus to the '64 230SL.  This is the oldest of the 4, and perhaps the best in terms of condition and originality.  But oh my god what a mess.  It was in a shed with exposed fiberglass insulation, and squirrels had taken up home in the shed.  They had ripped out all the insulation and the car was was covered with it inside and out.  There was a dead mouse on the driver floor, and mold over the seats and interior side panels, not to mention the dust, dirt, and crud.

I decided to start with a good vacuuming and sponge bath inside and out.  Wow, what a difference.  It cleaned up REALLY well.  Not show quality my any means, but really impressive for a mostly original car.  My first thought was "gee, maybe my wife will stop harassing me when she sees this".  When she saw it, she said "can I have that one?"

Then I started to check through things mechanically.  This fuel tank looked OK, but I suspect the fuel is pretty stale.  Unfortunately, I'm out of containers to store stale fuel so I couldn't drain it.  Instead, I moved forward and started putting the engine compartment back together.  The manifold heat shield was in place but not fastened, so I strapped that in place.  The line from the coolant expansion tank to the water pump was disconnected at both ends so I hooked that back up, and the coil wire was pulled out from the end plug and had to be screwed back in place.  The wires need to be replaced, but I didn't have the parts on hand, so I made do with what I had.

After replacing the battery and filling with coolant and confirming that the fuel pump ran, I gave it a try.  This one took a while to start, but finally fired up.  After blowing about a dozen acorns out the tail pipe, it idled and bit and finally died.  On subsequent attempts it would spit and sputter while cranking, but wouldn't run on it's own.  I discovered gas dripping from the air intake (home removed), adn when I opened the throttle air flap several ounces of gas came out.

I removed the cold start valve from the manifold and pulled it back far enough to see it while operating the pump and starter and sure enough it sprayed gas as soon as the ignition was turned on.  I removed the control wire from the solenoid and tried again and it still sprayed fuel, so the valve was stuck.  I removed the solenoid and poked at the ball valve, then rechecked with the pump running and it looked dry.  When reassembling I found that one of the solenoid screw holes has been stripped so only one side of the solenoid is correctly mounted.  Plus part of the solenoid housing is cracked and missing exposing its interior to the elements.  So, both issues will need to be dealt with, but for now the valve is dry except for a second or two squirt when you first start cranking the engine.  I suspect that's proper operation.  But the engine still won't run on it's own, so my next focus will be to get the old gas out, replace the filter, and get fresh gas through the system.  I also have new plugs, wires, cap and rotor on the way.

I also found that the throttle linkage isn't put together right.  The rod that comes up through the manifolds from the block arm is binding against the manifold when opened up more than about half throttle.  The rocker arm mounted on top of the manifold is different from the other 230 I have on site, but that car has a 250 motor so I'm not sure if the arm should be exactly the same of different.  But I know what I've got now isn't right - even I can figure that out.
Peter Hayden
1964 MB 230SL
1970 MB 280SL
2011 BMW 550xi

twistedtree

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'64 230SL after clean up
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2010, 01:30:56 »
Here are some pictures after a sponge bath inside and out.

Peter Hayden
1964 MB 230SL
1970 MB 280SL
2011 BMW 550xi

dtuttle123

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Re: How one Pagoda turned into four..
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2010, 02:17:32 »
I think this is going to be a great story!  Keep us updated, and post some more photos...and please take off those aftermarket bumper guards on that 230SL! :o

twistedtree

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Re: How one Pagoda turned into four..
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2010, 02:27:52 »
I think this is going to be a great story!  Keep us updated, and post some more photos...and please take off those aftermarket bumper guards on that 230SL! :o

Those aren't original?  I've got a lot to learn......
Peter Hayden
1964 MB 230SL
1970 MB 280SL
2011 BMW 550xi

hauser

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Re: How one Pagoda turned into four..
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2010, 04:05:09 »
Those bumper guards seem to be the norm for that particular car.  I have seen quite a few with the very same type.  Quite ugly in my opinion.

Peter van Es

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Re: How one Pagoda turned into four..
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2010, 08:34:59 »
Look! He's got an intact Radio Delete Plate!!!

Peter
1970 280SL. System Admin of the site. Please do not mail or PM me questions on Pagoda's... I'm not likely to know the answer.  Please post on the forum instead!

twistedtree

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Re: How one Pagoda turned into four..
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2010, 11:35:04 »
Look! He's got an intact Radio Delete Plate!!!

Peter

Yes, I really like that little feature.  I'll get rid of the radio hanging under the dash.

One other thing I noticed on the '64 is that it has no side lights front or back.  Is that normal, or do you think they were removed at some point?  The data card and body number plate indicate it's a US car.  I don't remember how the US laws evolved in that regard.

Peter Hayden
1964 MB 230SL
1970 MB 280SL
2011 BMW 550xi

mdsalemi

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Re: How one Pagoda turned into four..
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2010, 12:48:30 »
Side lights came in mid 1969 production I believe?  My car was built 1/69 and did NOT have them; it had reflectors.  Sometime prior to that, of course, reflectors were added...as a '64 there were hardly any of the safety/fed requirements because there were hardly any at that time!
Michael Salemi
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