A thing of beauty ....

[ctaylor738]

For my 280SL project. 

[Richard Madison]

Chuck:

It is a lovely  thing...

A Grill Story: At the annual Mercedes gathering last year at the Montvale, New Jersey headquarters of MB USA, the President of the Mercedes Benz Club of America was looking very closely at the grill of my 280SL.

I approached and asked, "What is so interesting? With a friendly smile, he looked up and said, "I was looking at your screws."

"Oh", I said, "that's a little strange. What about them?"  

He explained that from his observation, the grills on many (most?) Pagodas have the wrong screws and washers holding the front grill in place. He was pleased to see that my car had the correct grill hardware.

My chest swelled with pride as I went around inviting all Pagoda owners at the gathering to look at my screws.

Each original grill screw, according to the President (who teaches Judging classes to Pagoda owners), has a rounded Phillips head top. The screw is set into a collar that rises up slightly around the neck of the tightened screw. Many of the Pagoda grills he had seen did not have the correct collar around the screw. End of story

If you care, take a look at your grill screws...see the little collars? Good. Any washer will work but as you drive downtown, it's nice to know that you have the proper grill collars and screws.

Richard M, NYC: whose Grill is properly screwed.

[ctaylor738]

Great story.  Hopefully the correct washers are somewhere in the large piles of stuff that came with the car so that I too can be properly screwed.

The reason for the new shell is bizarre.  The one that came with the car had been re-plated and looked perfect, except that it had been carefully cut at the lower corners AFTER re-chroming - you can see the brass at the cuts.  I can't understand why anyone would do this.  The seller didn't have a clue.

[mdsalemi]

Richard, Chuck--

The correct screws that PETER LESLER was referring to on your grill are called "oval head".  They are generally designed to fit into "finishing washers".  You can get them in nearly any form you need, and of course while probably not technically correct, stainless steel will last a bit longer.  Peter might have been referring to the prevalent use of flat head screws in those finishing washers...

...which reminds me to CHECK MINE in spring!!!

[jeffc280sl]

Richard,

Are your washers the same as those in Michael's picture?

[66andBlue]

Sorry Michael, these are the wrong washers for sure.
Fortunately correct DIN washers and screws (chromed brass) are still available:
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370320105290
The seller has a large variety of correct screws, bolts and and other chromed parts for older Mercedes cars:
http://stores.shop.ebay.de/chromschrauben__W0QQ_armrsZ1

Not cheap but quality rarely is.

[hauser]

The link that Alfred posted is the same type of washers that I have on my grill.  The washer should not flare out at the bottom.

I'll try to post a photo in a couple days.

[mdsalemi]

Alfred, thank you for the information, and Hauser for confiming.

Those washers in the photo I posted were certainly not from a W113 specific site or car, but merely to illustrate  "finishing washers" designed to take an oval head screw for the benefit of those that don't have anything like it on their car!  I did not indicate that they would be 100% correct but they CERTAINLY are better than what a lot of cars have--which is nothing at all...and nothing at all with an oval head screw = damage to the [very expensive] grill surround parts.  Alternative, you'll see truss head, flat head or other headed screws with no washers at all.  A finishing washer as shown, in [nickel or chromed] brass or stainless, is readily available in many places and provides a measure of originality without breaking the bank or jumping through hoops or international shipping to deal with.  We all have to compromise somewhere--remember there simply are NO original tires available anymore.

Alfred, when you point us to websites like you did understand they are in German, a language only a few of us W113 owners are familiar with.  The only difference between the finishing washers they illustrate is that they have flat side as opposed to angled.  At a cost of 17 Euros for 8 pieces (that's about $24!) that's pretty expensive...beyond expensive and into the realm of outrageous.  There are many, many suppliers of all kinds of hardware in SAE, DIN in all materials, and a good number of these are in the USA.  With a little sleuthing the astute could probably find finishing washers with straight sides in nickel plated brass--if they are so inclined.

Personally, I'll also offer the following--the specific washer I showed a photo of, as well as the photo of the "correct" washer from that eBay/German website, are both less than optimal choices from a technical standpoint in washer selection!  A proper choice would have been what is called a flange finishing washer, which is less likely to cut into or damage the material being fastened.

The true value of any one of these washers from any number of fastener manufactuers is about  $0.02 each.  Stainless, brass, chrome, zinc--two cents.

But, all that being said--thanks for the links.  I'm itching to check what kind of washers I have...and to see what I have to do about that in the spring!  My guess is I have closer to what I showed than what Hauser has or Alfred indicated--only because I know that the restorer simply used locally available fasteners, and it would not be the first time I found wrong ones in place.

Oh, BTW this just in from our friend Dave Gallon...the "correct" parts are available from MBUSA:

Washers: 900056 003507 list $2.50 (Dave's price $1.85)

The chrome plated oval head screws (from Mercedes, exactly as original) are: 007983 003216 list $0.90 (Dave's price $0.62)

When in doubt, check with the source...Mercedes-Benz!  

[peterm]

Richard- I always wondered if you had a screw loose from the first time we met and you took your extended pointing device out to show me the irregularities of my engine bay.  You of course now set in motion a sequence where i like many others in the forum, will have to go out take off the car cover and look at our screws and washers on our grills.  If I find out I have the wrong screws I know where I can find the right ones now......hint-Richard don't stop short or your grill may go flying off

[thelews]

The washers pictured are not correct.  The grille washer is more substantial, styled and contained, being that it is so visible.  It's the same washer used in my 190 SL grille, also pictured.  The washers pictured above are usually used in carpet and some upholstery applications.

[mdsalemi]

Yes, John, we KNOW that the washers I pictured are not correct, and I didn't indicate they were.  Alfred pointed that out.  Nice to see it confirmed on both cars of yours (the 190, too).  The washers on YOUR cars appear to be the same as the photos from the German website/sellers that Alfred pointed out.  Straight-sided finish washers, with Chrome plated oval head screws.

Like hose clamps, another nit-picking detail of originality.  See my previous post for current MB part numbers, supplied by Dave Gallon.

MB does indeed have a habit of changing things along the way, so until somebody orders these part numbers we will only assume they are the same as in the photos of John's car.

[Eryck]

The correct screws and 'washer' are readily available from the likes of SLS.  I bought a set but couldn't fit them because some previous owners' mechanic used the wrong screws and therefore made the holes larger!  :'(

[Andres G]

Eryck,

Some ingenuity always comes in handy when working on things like these. A great way to deal with a "larger than needed" hole, is to supplement it with some maleable insert that will allow the original size screw to fit in. I know this will sound a bit caveman-is, but I would think you could place a small piece of wood (a match or a toothpick for example) might do the trick in this case.

Regards,
Andres G

[ja17]

Hello Andres,

I am fortunate enough to have a welder and can weld closed the holes and re-drill them to the correct size. However, similar to your fix, I have successfully used a solid soft copper wire to take up enough space in the hole  so that the screw can gain enough grip!

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[RickM]

Another approach to make the hole smaller:

• Clean screw hole of any grease or dirt
• Back hole with masking tape
• Fill hole with JB Weld until flush
• Drill slightly smaller pilot hole
• Use proper screws to attach

Unless you're prepared to damage surrounding paint I wouldn't attempt to address with any type of heat based welding.

[jacovdw]

...MB does indeed have a habit of changing things along the way, so until somebody orders these part numbers we will only assume they are the same as in the photos of John's car.

For what its worth, recently ordered the washers and screws from Mercedes, and they are still the same as the ones on John's car.

[Dave Gallon]

Indeed, the Mercedes supplied parts referred to by Michael are exactly as original - I always keep stock for my projects and those of others.

[mdsalemi]

That really is good news indeed.  I can only imagine that supply decisions for something like this are made by someone at a desk, with little knowledge of the vehicles they belong to and the subtle nuances of design and appearance.

[Ron]

In response to my reading this thread and getting the correct numbers, I was able to order the screws and washers from my local (central CA) dealer: $25 out the door, next day service.  It is amazing how many parts are available for a car that is over 40 years old, and from a dealer that once sold the Pagodas.  One of the owners still drives a 280SL.

As to the washers, my car had none, and it had pan head screws instead of the correct ones.  The finishing washers sold at the hardware store where my choice before I read this thread, but as pointed out, they are "hollow."  I think this would allow these washers cut into the thin grill metal, at at the least leave an impression.  The solid M-B washers are better.  It is impressive the care put into this car, when it was correctly assembled at the factory.

Ron