Author Topic: Engine out of the car. What to do?  (Read 4684 times)

Miloslav Maun

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Engine out of the car. What to do?
« on: January 23, 2010, 10:34:21 »
What would you recommend to do when you have the engine out. It might have some 200.000 km but this is not sure. The car is a 1966 SL with original drive train. The cylinders seem to be round (but we are taking the block to a machine shop to have them measured precisely). The pistons are ok but the rings need to be replaced.
I was considering replacing the pistons but it seems it is a costly business, more than 200 EUR per piece at SLS. Would just replacing of the piston rings suffice? Considering the cylinder ovality is not too severe?

I also plan to machine the crankshaft and get new bearings for 1st grade of grinding although it seems to be ok. I plan to replace the bearings anyway so why not make the crankshaft tighter.

Of course we will install new valve guides and all the engine seals and gaskets.

Any recommendations or suggestions? Your input is welcome.


JimVillers

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Re: Engine out of the car. What to do?
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2010, 18:31:27 »
Muf ... I would expect that the cylinders will need to be machined.  If your pistons are in fact OK, you could have the cylinders sleeved back to standard (about half of the cost of pistons).  You could also have custom pistons manufactured; J&E forged pistons are about 75% of new pistons but they require that the rod ends be bushed.  This is the time to fix the engine.
Jim Villers
190SL, 230SL 5-Speed, MGB 5-Speed, MGB GT V8 RHD (real MG), 2016 SLK

Miloslav Maun

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Re: Engine out of the car. What to do?
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2010, 08:03:39 »
So how do you sleeve the cylinders? I have never heard of it.
Is it because the cylinders are always worn after 200.000 km that I cannot leave them as they are?

ja17

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Re: Engine out of the car. What to do?
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2010, 14:39:51 »
Hello,

First have the pistons checked. Clean the carbon out of the top ring groove. With a new  top ring in place you should not have more than .004" space between the top or bottom of the ring and the groove.  The top ring groove on these pistons will wear wider causing the piston ring to move up and down in the ring groove, eventually twisting and breaking.

The skinny top ring and its groove are usually worn the most.

Clean the carbon at the top of the cylinders. If you have enough ridge to catch your finger nail, it is usually worn beyound specs.  Cylinders do no wear exactly the same. They wear egg-shapped, and tappered. Putting new perfectly round piston rings in a oval worn cylinder is obviously a problem.  A good experienced machinest with the correct tools can tell you exactly the situation. 

Sleeving is usually the last resort and used after the block is totally used up.  The cylinders are bored completely out and new metal sleeves are pressed into the bored cylinders. The new sleeves are then bored out to the original standard size of the engine. It works quite well. Here again you are dependant on the skill of the machinest, the quality of the steel sleeves and the accuracy of the machinest's edquipment.. a lot of variables! During  repairs in the future, the machinest has the option of boring the sleeves to an oversize or replacing the sleeve.

Some engines come from the factory with sleeves already in place. (some Mercedes Diesel engines and most commercial diesel engines).  Life expectancy of a commercial diesel will be over one million miles. Sleeving is a more common practice.  However other parts like pistons are also beefed up to last, for example, the ring grooves in the aluminum pistons are re-enforced with a nickle/steel alloy so the do not wear.

Early Mercedes Aluminum alloy gasoline engines (M189) came from the factory with alluminum blocks and steel sleeves in the cylinders (quite a technical achievementin 1963).
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

Miloslav Maun

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Re: Engine out of the car. What to do?
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2010, 16:10:37 »
Thank you both for your answers. I'll measure the clearances and we shall see.

Miloslav Maun

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Re: Engine out of the car. What to do?
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2010, 13:07:24 »
So, unfortunatelly we have found a scratch in one of the cylinders. I will need to get oversize piston and bore the block.

Could you recommend a good source for pistons? Thanks