Author Topic: PC vs. Mac (Read 54411 times)

Cees Klumper · « **Reply #50 on:** November 19, 2011, 23:32:45 »

FWIW, I bought an IPAD this week, it arrived, worked fine for a day, then started to erratically shut itself off/reboot in the middle of any operation - constantly. When I searched for possible solutions, the Google search ('IPAD erratically turning off") returned 288 million (!) hits, and, after having tried the user manual fixes, a review of various forum discussions convinced me to make use of the 'return it within 14 days and get your money back' Apple deal. It is apparently some hardware issue but it baffles me how Apple can afford to ship so many defective units.

Peter van Es · « **Reply #51 on:** November 21, 2011, 13:27:29 »

Quote from: mdsalemi on November 19, 2011, 21:28:16

One last part I need to get is--believe it or not--a Windows 7 OEM disk. Though most of my software comes in dual versions, there is still some thing I have that are PC only. There will be one drive in the Mac Pro Tower that will be a Windows 7-only drive, where I can run these programs and others as I need to.

Mike,

Congrats. I'm sure you have 8GB of memory...

Secondly, buy 2x 2TB Sata-3 drives to install into the two remaining drive slots. Then make them into a logical raid-1 disk (OS X can do that for you). That way, if one of them fails -- as they will, you don't lose anything. It's what I did and it makes you feel much more secure.

Thirdly, buy a large external Firewire or USB drive (2TB minimum) and use it as a Time Machine disk to make backups onto.

Fourthly, before messing with Bootcamp, download Virtualbox... https://www.virtualbox.org/. It is free, Open Source software, and very reliable. Try to install Windows 7 on that (it take a little sorting out) but then you can runs Windows applications right from your OS X environment, either in a Win7 window, Full Screen, or in Seamless Window mode (as if they are running on OS X). Much easier to switch between apps, and you can share OS X drives in Win 7. Best thing: no need to partition drives etc.

Peter

mdsalemi · « **Reply #52 on:** November 22, 2011, 11:24:37 »

Yes, indeed--it is 8 GB of memory, not 8 MB. That will be a good starting point, will probably upgrade later. Biggest factors for my work are hard drive access speed and cache, and main memory. Video board isn't that relevant, and neither is processor speed--those are things for "gamers".

The 2 x 2TB SATA drive suggestion is solid, and sound, but something for the future. The 2TB drives in enterprise class are nearly $300 each at the moment, which would add a hefty chunk to my final "assembly cost". Will file that for future reference. The RAID feature is nice, though believe it or not I've never had a hard drive failure--usually because I buy drives that are robust and not state of the art, and don't keep them near to their MTBF rating. It is a program that has worked for about 25 years...

2TB is, at the moment, is more storage space than I can envision. Even the single 1 TB drive I bought, absent the OS and Apps, will only be about 20% full with everything I have. Growth is slow...

I do have 2 external drives for backup, from the Pagoda Book.

Not the largest or fastest [now] but not at the end of their useful life either.

The virtual box link was interesting, and I'll investigate further. Again, sound advice. From what I've seen of Bootcamp it looks a lot simpler than virtual box, but that's just an instant assessment, not necessariliy factual. Problem is I have to find bootcamp--it is supposed to be in the utilities folder of OS-X but did not show up on my daughter's update. Hmmm.

The reason for the bootcamp was other sound advice I received--"don't run parallels, or run any Windows apps in a virtual machine or under OS-X. Keep it all separate and distinct, and keep it all on a separate bootable hard drive." No bad consequences were offered or suggested but the separation makes some kind of sense.

I'll be putting most of the Mac together today, as the final part arrived yesterday--the keyboard! I'm really curious to see how fast that SSD drive will be!

mdsalemi · « **Reply #53 on:** November 22, 2011, 18:12:29 »

...and so the first problem shows up: an incompatibility between the monitor (Apple Cinema Display 27" LED) and the Mac Pro.

The display adapter in the Mac Pro utilizes something called a DVI connector; two of them, actually, as it supports 2 monitors.
The display itself has a real short cable, and clearly is designed for use with a laptop...with a mini-DV connector.

...and therein lies my first issue. Why would you buy a laptop, and then a [gargantuan display] for it? Does not make intuitive sense to me. At least, if you make a fabulous monitor, you should have some built in backward compatibility to other display models?

A call to the Apple store, and there is a $125 connector that apparently will solve the problem. We'll see--but still, I might need extension cords as the cable from the monitor is really designed to have a Mac Book sitting right in front of it. I don't know if I can get the monitor and tower close enough in their real world installation.

Still waiting to power it all up!

66andBlue · « **Reply #54 on:** November 22, 2011, 18:54:16 »

Mike,
what kind of connector do you need?
DVI (F) to mini-DVD(M)? Be careful, they come in all kinds of combinations.
One from Apple only costs $19: http://store.apple.com/us/product/M9321G/B
Extension cables for either one should not be a problem

mdsalemi · « **Reply #55 on:** November 22, 2011, 19:47:25 »

The Mac itself has a DVI female connector (2 of them). I believe it is digital.
The monitor has a Mini-DV, and I suspect it is male.
Apple has already sent, overnight and gratis, the proper connector box. This is it:
http://store.apple.com/us/product/H5236ZM/A
Overnight and free? That's customer service par excellence...but I did just buy a whoop-a** large monitor from them upon their recommendation...

Lo and behold, my PC monitor has both mini-DV out (but no cable) but it is connected to the PC with a DVI cable. So, I was able to borrow that at the expense of my PC, and at least get the SSD installed with the new Lion OS successfully. I'll wait for more setup when that part comes tomorrow.

Peter van Es · « **Reply #56 on:** November 22, 2011, 19:54:05 »

The problem is that the Cinema display comes with a Mini-Displayport cable... it expects to be inserted in a laptop with the same, or a video card in your MacPro with a suitable video card...

Best bet (what I did) buy a faster video card with a Mini Displayport... http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC742ZM/A?fnode=MTY1NDA5OQ but make sure that the card works in your Mac Pro... I needed to get one of these: http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC743ZM/A?fnode=MTY1NDA5OQ

Note: Mini-Displayport is not the same as Mini DVI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini_DisplayPort

Peter van Es · « **Reply #57 on:** November 22, 2011, 19:55:07 »

Quote from: mdsalemi on November 22, 2011, 19:47:25

Apple has already sent, overnight and gratis, the proper connector box. This is it:

Wow, impressive!

Regrettably it appears that box (from the specs) does not fully support the massive 2560x1440 screen resolution which I am enjoying here and which makes the $999 of the Cinema Display worth paying for.

Peter

mdsalemi · « **Reply #58 on:** November 22, 2011, 20:25:46 »

I was one short step away today from buying the Apple-version ATI Radeon HD 5770 adapter today, for about $250. However, you know the old story about doing too many things at once...I had not even powered the darn thing up yet! The one thing that stopped me was a couple of reviews that said it is "about the same as the X1900" and the other said, "WOW! This is so cool! After tech support from Apple and MacSales-OWC, I was finally able to get my new HD5770 working with my 2007 Mac Pro Tower!"

I suppose I might be able to sell this Kanex converter, AND the existing ATI Radeon X1900, and the proceeds might significantly defray the cost of the new HD 5770. Once it is all up and running, I'll be there.

Funny--the same basic-architecture HD5770 for a PC is about half the cost of the proprietary Mac/Apple version.

Peter van Es · « **Reply #59 on:** November 22, 2011, 20:47:26 »

Well, if you'd like to save $200 and appreciate hacking.... http://www.3dot5.net/blog/pc-radeon-5770-and-5870-finally-work-in-mac-pro/

mdsalemi · « **Reply #60 on:** November 26, 2011, 02:01:43 »

Making serious progress. Ordered and received the Apple AMD/ATI Radeon 5770 video card. It has the proper mini Displayport connector. It works fine in this older Mac Pro tower, at full resolution with the 27" Cinema Display. So now the old hardware goes on eBay for recycling. Lots more setup and configuration to do, more software to install, too. Bootup from power off is in seconds due to the SSD drive. I'm a bit away from retiring the PC yet, but it has taken about 6 hours today to get about 50% through a security scan. Goodness knows i will not miss that!

mdsalemi · « **Reply #61 on:** April 10, 2012, 12:21:54 »

Well, the "new" Macintosh has been up and running now for a few months. I also have had the opportunity or reason, to go back on occasion, to Windows--both XP and Win7.

I can tell you with certainty that the robustness of the MacOS is simply not comparable. It doesn't crash, period. It actually does what it is supposed to do! Often, nearly everything is running at the same time, w/o any conflicts or issues.

There's a lot of nonsense about the Apple acolytes, but realistically few go into the more technical aspects of just how well the operating system works. I'm pretty astounded.

twistedtree · « **Reply #62 on:** April 10, 2012, 12:48:16 »

After a career using PCs and designing, building, and selling products that worked with PCs, I switched to a Mac about 2 years ago. It's like I had spent my life banging my head against a wall, and suddenly realized I didn't need to do it anymore. For all those still using Windows, all I can say is that you don't need to put up with it any longer. It doesn't have to be that way.

The Mac's aren't prefect by any means, but they are SO much better than Windows in terms of organization, consistency, predictability, and reliability. The fundamental difference is that with the Mac when you try something new, 98% of the time it works correctly the first time as expected. With Windows, you need to screw up the courage to try something new, knowing darn well that you have a 60% to 80% chance that it won't work. Best case you will be in for a struggle to get it to work, and worst case you will take out your whole system. I think Windows is a net drain on human productivity. Just say No.

And for those who have some lingering apps that are windows only (like me), buy VMWare Fusion for $80. Connect it to your existing Windows machine, and it will ingest all its contents and let you run your legacy windows junk side-by-side with your mac apps. No rebooting. Everything runs side by side at the same time. This was the key that enabled me to finally dump windows.

Free yourself now!

Ulf · « **Reply #63 on:** April 10, 2012, 18:42:05 »

Mac forever: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3V4RsquGkI

49er · « **Reply #64 on:** April 10, 2012, 19:08:29 »

Hello Peter,"twistedtree". I couldn't agree with you more, read my post #47 in this thread:-) I do remember a time back in the late 90s when a buddy of mine at work and I were talking about Apple and maybe we should buy some shares in the company. They were trading in the mid teens at the time. We both were really "Mac Guys" but didn't hold out much hope for the company so we didn't buy any. Big mistake for sure:-(

John

J. Huber · « **Reply #65 on:** April 10, 2012, 21:07:52 »

Well, as I stated somewhere back a ways, I have gone in and out of Mac products over the generations -- but now am very hooked. Apple products are simply outstanding (a bit like Mercedes automobiles).... And 49er, like you I had and sold my early AAPL when they were lagging (25 or so)... I have since bought some back but at a much (much) higher premium. Still happy as a clam for the latest run...

As an aside, nice desktop John! My Imac is smartly adorned as well. Wonder how many of us have a Pagoda as their Wallpaper?

mdsalemi · « **Reply #66 on:** April 10, 2012, 21:39:12 »

There were two big "kicks" that Apple made, like afterburners on a fighter jet...

First was dumping the proprietary Motorola microprocessor architecture and going with Intel a few years back. Yes that is why most Apple hardware, properly configured can run Windows.
Second was a thoroughly clean sheet writing of the operating system in Unix, rather than relying on stuff written years ago and just patching it (that would be Windows...)

In addition to these items, they run an orderly house, a tight ship. I compare it to a gated community where everyone follows the rules, and Windows kind of a wild west town with a good part of town, and "the other side of tracks". Mac OSX is order; Windows is entropy; chaos.

The foundations of Windows--even the latest--are built on quicksand. Each time I run a windows machine the system has to update for viruses, the disk just keeps whirring and whirring and you can't do a darn thing while it is. I have no idea why sometimes one mouse click will send the hard drive into orbit for minutes. It's done this on every Windows machine I've ever used.
The foundations of Apple OS-X are solidly built into bedrock. Quicker, cleaner, probably because it is more efficient.

I'm certainly glad I made the move...

Once you make the move and live with it for a while, you can see. Yeah, the hardware is a bit pricey but it too has a build quality untouched by anyone. The amount of time I save over screwing around with Windows each day is astounding.

49er · « **Reply #67 on:** April 10, 2012, 21:59:42 »

Actually Michael, Apple dropped the Motorola chip in favor of IBM's "Power PC" chip in the late 90's. It was just a matter of time before Apple then eventually switched over to Intel. By the way, my first Mac was an "SE", 128k memory and a 20Mb HD. Along with a 8" BW built in screen! They sure have come a long way since then.

John

49er · « **Reply #68 on:** April 10, 2012, 22:02:08 »

Quote from: J. Huber on April 10, 2012, 21:07:52

As an aside, nice desktop John! My Imac is smartly adorned as well. Wonder how many of us have a Pagoda as their Wallpaper?

Nice desktop James! You guys sure live in beautiful part of our state! Matches your car:-) Get your seat back yet?

John

J. Huber · « **Reply #69 on:** April 10, 2012, 22:52:26 »

Quote from: 49er on April 10, 2012, 22:02:08

Get your seat back yet?

John

Still Waiting......

hank sound · « **Reply #70 on:** April 10, 2012, 23:53:46 »

Hey 49er, an SE, huh? That does go back a ways. Mine was a straight 128k that I bought during the first 100 days after release in 1984. I wanted one so bad !!! My wife (at the time:D) was pissed at me - said only big business firms and film studios had "puters". Anyway, I bought one and upgraded memory etc, whenever stuff came available - and lugged it and the Imagewriter printer, all over the world on location. WOW - that was about 28 years ago !! And I have an absolutely pristine copy of the very first issue of Mac World........... I miss Steve . . his amazing vision and energy.

Cheers, Hank

mdsalemi · « **Reply #71 on:** April 11, 2012, 12:29:26 »

Quote from: 49er on April 10, 2012, 21:59:42

Actually Michael, Apple dropped the Motorola chip in favor of IBM's "Power PC" chip in the late 90's. It was just a matter of time before Apple then eventually switched over to Intel. By the way, my first Mac was an "SE", 128k memory and a 20Mb HD. Along with a 8" BW built in screen! They sure have come a long way since then.

John

John, I was forced to use early Mac (we were given a room full of them at graduate school in 1984 just after release) and they were horrible. They drove us absolutely MAD! Later, when the Macintosh II and IIfX came out, there was a lot of proprietary software, as well as other software otherwise unavailable on PC platforms that served the changing world of graphic design and prepress work; that was the business I was in. They were extremely expensive (I remember paying about $5k in the early 1990's for a properly equipped IIfX system) and were not particularly fast or robust--but they ran the layout software, front end imagesetter software, graphics editing, and PostScript--something PC's were slow to do. I had no choice: I used them--the Macs--but hated every moment! The company I worked for did too, and implemented PostScript interpreters on IBM PS/2's running AIX UNIX. It was rock solid. The Macintosh didn't cut it in terms of OS robustness nor in hardware quality at the time.

The PowerPC, and derivatives lasted for 12 years at Apple, but it really was not until they "went Intel", in my opinion, that things started taking off for the best. I looked at Macs over the years for my personal use (while using them at professional client sites) and always begged off on them. System crashes on early Macs, particularly when doing this high-end graphics stuff, were regular, with lots of loss of work and time. My Mac today, even though the hardware is from 2006 with the latest OS, has not crashed at all. One or two programs has, but it no longer "takes down the computer" in the process. And, the virus stuff is virtually nonexistent.

I'm a pretty happy camper in Mac land.

twistedtree · « **Reply #72 on:** April 11, 2012, 12:43:57 »

OK, I have the fess up. When I opened my Mac this morning, all I got was a black screen and the psychedelic wheel. I had to power cycle and reboot. Fortunately such behavior is a rare occurrence, but it does happen.

mdsalemi · « **Reply #73 on:** April 11, 2012, 14:50:59 »

Peter, dump your hard drive, and go to an SSD. You'll never look back.

twistedtree · « **Reply #74 on:** April 11, 2012, 23:16:22 »

Quote from: mdsalemi on April 11, 2012, 14:50:59

Peter, dump your hard drive, and go to an SSD. You'll never look back.

Still too small and too expensive for my needs. I've got 500GB currently and it's 90% full. Will likely move to 1TB in the next 6 months or so. Flash is still 5x to 10x the cost of spinning media, but even then I'd be all over it if I had lower storage needs.

News:

Author Topic: PC vs. Mac (Read 54411 times)

hank sound