Author Topic: Correct period radio for '67 250SL Euro (Read 16929 times)

Allen · « **on:** February 13, 2010, 18:48:52 »

I'd like to understand what is the period-correct radio for my '67 250SL. It was built in June '67. The car was imported to the US from Germany in 1970 or so, and the PO told me it originally had a Blaupunk. I'd like to know if the orig radio was a Blaupunk or Becker, and which model should I get?

The VIN ends in 2686. The datacard does not show the radio as an option. Currently it has a new Digital Sony radio that has to go.

Thanks,

Allen Stephens

Atazman · « **Reply #1 on:** February 13, 2010, 19:03:24 »

Don't know for sure if mine is original but it is a Blaupunck (spelling?). I have speakers mounted behind the rear seat and I know that part is not "correct", so original owner may have changed radios at the same time.

mdsalemi · « **Reply #2 on:** February 13, 2010, 22:09:19 »

This is an age old question.

The official party line is the factory never installed anything but Becker radios.

Because of the expense of the Becker, however, many dealers in the USA ordered cars w/o radios from the factory, and did a dealer-install of a Blaupunkt.

I believe at the time you are speaking, there was only mono radios through the single speaker on the upper dash. Later, and if I'm wrong someone will correct me, some cars had Becker stereo speakers in the kick panels by the foot wells. These were small, maybe 4" square or so, and stuck out a bit from the panel.

Mike Hughes · « **Reply #3 on:** February 13, 2010, 22:30:36 »

My 66 230SL ws ordered without the factory radio and the selling dealer installed a Blaupunkt, just like Mike says. When this was done at the dealer when the cars were new, you got proper matching radio knobs, etc, just as if the radio had been installed at the factory.

Allen · « **Reply #4 on:** February 14, 2010, 00:56:40 »

Thanks guys. I am thinking on getting a Becker as I prefer the look. What model of Becker is appropriate for a '67? Or does it matter? I am looking at the model range of Beckers here: http://www.blackforestllc.com/becker/index.html

Where do you recommend I look? I have checked e-bay but I'm not sure what model to buy and the price ranges.

Thanks,

ja17 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 14, 2010, 01:04:48 »

Yes,
My understanding is the same as both Mikes. I know a dealer in Cincinnatti back in the late 60s who installed Balupunkt's in the new arivals.

My understanding on some of th earlier cars like the 190SLs, the factory would install, Becker, Balupunkt or Telefunken radios from the factory. Normally the cars would only be supplied from the factory with Becker Radios.

thelews · « **Reply #6 on:** February 14, 2010, 01:31:10 »

Mine is a Blaupunkt (original).

I would call Michael at Black Forest and discuss your options, correctness and prices with him.

Mike Hughes · « **Reply #7 on:** February 14, 2010, 02:05:35 »

I was comparing John's photo of the Blaupunkt in his 250SL and notice that the vinyl insert behind the radio tuning and on/off/volume knobs appears to be black. This would be in keeping with his black interior. Look at the photo of the installation in my Havana Brown car and you will see that the vinyl inserts are dark brown. Clearly Blaupunkt may have provided dealers with a selection of face plates to choose from. Not to hijack this thread, but I'd be curious to know if there are other colors out there for these dealer installed Blaupunkt units.

66andBlue · « **Reply #8 on:** February 14, 2010, 02:18:32 »

Allen,
since your car is an early 250SL it is likely that it came with a mono radio, such as a Becker Europa TR.
Before deciding what to buy make sure that your dash board opening was not enlarged for the current radio.
It should measure 1 3/4 x 6 7/8 inches to accept a Europa TR; see: http://www.beckerautosound.com/Classic/Coupe_face_%20vs_standard%20_info.htm
But I would also check the kick panels as Mike suggested to see whether stereo speakers were installed there.
While it is possible to buy Becker TR radios make sure that you get one with brackets for both the radio and the separate amplifier. For amplifier mounting location and what the brackets look like take a look at this topic:
http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=10844
Brackets were available from http://www.beckerautosound.com/. They also sell period correct Becker and Blaupunkt radios
Call Ed Ebel or Tom Mitchell there, they are both very helpful.

Allen · « **Reply #9 on:** February 14, 2010, 18:26:02 »

Thanks for the information. I'll measure the opening and call Ed and Tom at Becker autosound.

mdsalemi · « **Reply #10 on:** February 15, 2010, 13:22:16 »

Allen,

One more thing, I don't know if you picked up on it...

A "proper" radio for Europe would have bands such as displayed on thelews photo; there was nearly always as I know, a SW (shortwave) band, which was popular in Europe. You'd nearly never find this on a radio destined for the US market. So, if you really want proper for a Euro spec car, make sure you have a SW band! It's always fun to listen to Radio Moscow or Polish Opera at night anyway...

There are/were also some slight differences (which probably don't affect a radio of proper vintage since they are all "manual") in the FM band. I believe Europe has a more crowded FM band and the stations do not all end with an odd number like they do here in the USA (88.3, 97.7, etc) so some "automatic tuning" radios destined for markets other than the USA don't always work as easily here.

I never had radios compared side by side but have also been told that the radios destined for European markets have a total bandwidth different than the US? I believe the US band goes from 87.9 to 107.9; I think the European FM stations have a few below 87.9 (or maybe its above) but not many. Should not be an issue however, as generally very low power (high school!) uses the very first allowed stations. They signals don't propagate far.

Jordan · « **Reply #11 on:** February 15, 2010, 14:29:01 »

Allen,

Here is a picture of my Becker Europa TR. My car is a Euro version (Germany) 1966 230SL built in October, 1966, so about 9 months before yours. This is the original radio purchased when the car was originally bought. It appears to be the only option the original owner went for. The sound is not great but it works. To clean it up is a task further down my todo list.
Cheers
Marcus

Peter van Es · « **Reply #12 on:** February 15, 2010, 16:18:45 »

The Technical Manual has a lot of useful info also:

http://www.sl113.org/wiki/Electrical/Radio

or for the whole range:

http://www.sl113.org/wiki/Electrical/RadioAndAntenna

Peter

Allen · « **Reply #13 on:** February 15, 2010, 22:14:28 »

Thanks for all the information and photo examples:

Mike Salemi: Yes, I would like to find a radio that would have been found on a car in Europe, so I am interested in finding one with the shortwave bands. The previous owner did install speakers in the kick-panels. so I think I can go with either a stereo or mono unit. I am not going for 'Concours' restoration, however I'd like a radio that is authenic for year and Euro spec.
Jordan: Yes, the Europa TR looks like it is close to my month/year of manufacture.
Peter van Es: I have reviewed the Technical Manual. It has the list of all the available radios, but it does not specify what model radios went into what versions or years of W113. I want to poll the collective wisdom of the group to see what other owners have in theor W113's.

My next step is to remove the existing radio and measure the opening to see if it has been enlarged. The previous owner installed a new Sony head unit, so my assumption is that it has (See pic). I'll then call the guys at Becker Autosound to see what they recommend. I'll take photos and share with the group.

66andBlue · « **Reply #14 on:** February 16, 2010, 00:51:14 »

If you want a European Becker - that is one with shortwave SW (=K), long wave LW (=L), AM (=M) and FM (=U) then your best bet might be this company: http://www.koenigs-klassik.de/_Becker_/_becker_.html. Check out the online shop for available models and prices.
But I am not sure whether you would gain anything from spending quite a bit more money. I am not sure how many more points you would get at a "Concours" show, perhaps Michael does, but to be period correct a Becker TR or Stereo II should be just fine (Stereo models did become available in 1967).
If you do have a larger opening (and it looks like you do) then you can use the Europa Stereo II (that radio has the larger standard DIN opening) and take advantage of the kick panel speakers. In this case you could buy modern dual cone 4.5" diameter speakers and cover them with the correct speaker covers as shown in these eBay auctions: Item Number 110493026066 or Item number 250568661897.
If you want to be a bit more conservative and stay with a 1967 TR then you'll need to buy a new radio dash plate:
http://www.sl113.org/wiki/uploads/Electrical/230PlateR.jpg
with the correct opening. They show up occasionally on eBay.

mdsalemi · « **Reply #15 on:** February 16, 2010, 13:11:43 »

For an astute MBCA judge who would note that the car is a Euro model, and carefully observe the detail differences--they would, if in a mood, maybe deduct 1/2 point or 1/4 point if it is a correct Becker but not Euro. But I'm not even sure that would be noted. JonnyB? What would you do?

Definitely a deduction for a Blaupunkt, Telefunken, Grundig, "original" or not. Not a factory item, regardless of how long it has been in the car or whether it is the "original radio". Becker or no radio at all, and better have the delete plate if the latter.

There are 100 total points for the interior; there are 16 points for judging the interior-dash related and the radio is bundled with the dash; under-dash panels; instrumentation; radio; clock and controls. Those have 3 subcategories of authenticity; condition; and cleanliness.

With that in mind, you could have a correct radio, in poor condition and unclean getting more deductions than a slightly incorrect radio that is is spectacular condition and well cleaned and polished.

I don't make the rules (but have certainly been judged by them) but this is what they are.

scoot · « **Reply #16 on:** February 16, 2010, 14:59:02 »

Is your 250 SL an "early" or "late" 250 SL? If you have early (looks like a 230 SL inside) then the original radio opening is the small size. If you have late (looks like a 280 SL inside) then the original opening is the large size. To complicate matters, someone has stuffed an aftermarket radio into your dash which I hope means you have a late 250 SL and that they didn't cut the dash to fit it in.

If you have an early 250 SL w/ the dash not cut up, I think that the correct becker radio is a Becker TR with a SMALL FACE. It's a mono radio and it's a pain in the ass to find (or just very expensive). I _finally_ got one on ebay.de for a reasonable price (under $300). If you have a late 250 SL or if the dash has been cut to accomondate the later style radio, then you have LOTS of options. Possibly a big-face TR would still be the best option, or maybe just a regular Europa mono am/fm. From a use standpoint, it's nice if the FM band goes up to 108 instead of whatever the EU used at the time (103?).

Scott

thelews · « **Reply #17 on:** February 16, 2010, 15:19:29 »

By all accounts, he looks like he has an early 250 SL. The only diversion is the driver's rearview mirror.

RickM · « **Reply #18 on:** February 16, 2010, 16:51:27 »

For anyone interested here's a contact in Spain for vintage radios: http://www.oldautoradio.com/
Some very cool stuff...

The man to speak to is Josep Hernandez and besides repair and sales he has been very helpful with troubleshooting advice and research.
In the past Josep extended his knowledge of Blaupunkt radios, used in the earlier Porsche cars, on the Pelican Parts site.

To add, here's a site that sells manuals, schematics, components for older radios: http://www.justradios.com/valve.html

Hope this helps.

Bernd · « **Reply #19 on:** February 17, 2010, 13:33:25 »

Here is a pic of my very original USA version 68 280SL radio with correct faceplate, knobs etc. It is mono. Talked with Becker just yesterday, and they will fit an MP3 conversion kit to it. To do that they need to open the radio and hardwire, which is possible as a DIY project, but given my other projects right now, the least of my priorities. They originally sent me a kit based on the onfo I had given them which did NOT fit

Bernd

scoot · « **Reply #20 on:** February 17, 2010, 15:08:21 »

Quote from: Bernd on February 17, 2010, 13:33:25

Here is a pic of my very original USA version 68 280SL radio with correct faceplate, knobs etc. It is mono. Talked with Becker just yesterday, and they will fit an MP3 conversion kit to it. To do that they need to open the radio and hardwire, which is possible as a DIY project, but given my other projects right now, the least of my priorities. They originally sent me a kit based on the onfo I had given them which did NOT fit

Bernd

Or you can get a cable that plugs into the back that serves as an input for an mp3 player.

graphic66 · « **Reply #21 on:** February 17, 2010, 16:32:04 »

I purchased a Becker Grand Prix with the wonderbar for my 230SL. It is made for the smaller opening and has the early knobs. The person I purchased it from installed a cable so I can plug in my portable CD player. My car had the original Blaupunkt in it. The Becker seems to be a better unit. There are many radios made for the small opening and all of them bring a premium in price.

Bernd · « **Reply #22 on:** February 18, 2010, 16:53:40 »

As far as the cable goes, I went that route. Called Becker Auto Sound, gave them my model number, and they sent me a cable. However, no such luck when it arrived. Does not work with my radio, as there is no plug in receptacle. When I called them back, they said that that is definitely possible. They can modify the radio to make it work though, for about $100. Seems reasonable, and I am sure they will test it and make sure it works before they ship it back.

Ulf · « **Reply #23 on:** April 20, 2010, 13:34:55 »

Quote from: mdsalemi on February 13, 2010, 22:09:19

This is an age old question.

The official party line is the factory never installed anything but Becker radios.

Because of the expense of the Becker, however, many dealers in the USA ordered cars w/o radios from the factory, and did a dealer-install of a Blaupunkt.

I believe at the time you are speaking, there was only mono radios through the single speaker on the upper dash. Later, and if I'm wrong someone will correct me, some cars had Becker stereo speakers in the kick panels by the foot wells. These were small, maybe 4" square or so, and stuck out a bit from the panel.

Mine is a 1965 230 SL imported to the US after its first couple of years in Germany - it has a Blaupunkt mono and the two square speakers in the kick panels. It cannot really get any stations, but makes a cool noise that follows the revs making the interior sound like a Formula 1...

RickM · « **Reply #24 on:** April 22, 2010, 20:53:26 »

Quote from: Ulf on April 20, 2010, 13:34:55

Mine is a 1965 230 SL imported to the US after its first couple of years in Germany - it has a Blaupunkt mono and the two square speakers in the kick panels. It cannot really get any stations, but makes a cool noise that follows the revs making the interior sound like a Formula 1...

LOL, that sure brings back memories.

News:

Author Topic: Correct period radio for '67 250SL Euro (Read 16929 times)

Allen

Allen

Allen

Allen

RickM

Bernd

graphic66

Bernd

RickM