Brown staining on Coker Phoenix WW tires

[wwheeler]

I am replacing my tires and am using the Coker Phoenix tires. I bought (2) four months ago for the fronts and now have (2) more for the rears.

On the first two, one of them has developed a long brown stain that starts on the outer part of the WW strip and fades as it goes toward the inner diameter of the WW. I have used Westley's cleaner and Coker's tire cleaner and neither gets rid of it completely. It slowly comes back. The other tire has no stain.

Now one of the two NEW tires is starting to do the same!

I called Coker and they confidently said that the brown stain is the mold release leaching out and will subside with time and use. Has anybody else had this experience and heard the same from Coker? These tires cost too much for something like this to happen.

Frustrating!

[w113dude]

Hi W,
I have never heard of such thing and I do agree  with you, Tires costing close to $200.00 each should not have these kind of problems.

Here is what I do, it might help you too. Occasionally I do have stains on my whites, all I use is some kind of a degreaser, or in extreme cases where I might have a curb marks I use a rough 3M pad, degreaser & armoroll, That usually takes care of any king of stains & scuffs.

[hauser]

Buy the WW cleaner from Coker.  It will help with your particular problem.

[mdsalemi]

Hauser is correct.

Further, the problem is caused by the Westley's.  It is leaching out something from the tire compound itself and this is what is staining the WW.  I had some identical issues with Westley's and other kinds of tire shines, cleaners and treatments.  Use of the Coker product and some 1000 grit sandpaper took the problem away, and it hasn't returned.

Most of us do NOT have "other" WW tires.  If you wash and dry your daily driver tires, drive them over a piece of white paper, and do the Westley's, you'll see the brown gunk ooze onto the paper.  I had plenty of driveway stains as evidence.

[wwheeler]

Yikes!

I had no idea that Westley's could do that. I did try the Coker tire cleaner but did not use 1000 grit along with it. I will try that tonight. The Coker cleaner smells like it is based on orange oil. It also separates quickly so you have to shake it frequently.

What about their explanation that it is mold release? I am a rubber molder myself and know quite a bit about that process. I don't think I buy that. The Westley's explanation is more plausible.

Has anybody had any experience with using 303 on tires? I like using it on all my other rubber stuff. After this staining episode, I have been too worried about putting anything on the tires!

Thank you for all of your responses!

[RickM]

Modern tires have additives called antiozonants incorporated into the make-up of the "rubber". These antiozonants are designed to make their way to the surface of the tire and prevent cracking and other deteriorating effects.  The end result is brown staining, aka blooming.  After some time these compounds are exhausted and the blooming stops.
While this sounds good from a superficial maintenance standpoint it tells you the tire will need these "preservative" protectants replenished. Some dressings are designed to penetrate and accommodate this need (as best they can).  

To help prevent blooming Meguires has tire dressings that form a barrier to prevent the unsightly compounds from surfacing on a clean tire and provide UV protection.  303 Aerospace Protectant For Tires is another product designed for this purpose.

I agree with above that some dressings exacerbate the problem as opposed to helping.....IMHO, anything silicone based is a no-no.

Unfortunately a product called Black Again is no longer available in its original formulation. This used to be available at most auto parts supply outlets.

[mdsalemi]

Wallace,

I think RickM has it correct.

Coker also makes a dressing in addition to the cleaner, it imparts a modest sheen that looks more realistic than the wet look of many.

Use the 1000 grit only when necessary; wipe ALL the excess stuff off, and then dress with their dressing if you choose.  I don't have the issue anymore.

I'm not buying the mold release explanation.

[wwheeler]

I didn't have any 1000 grit paper, so I used scotchbrite on a test spot. It didn't work very well, so I went out and bought 1000 grit. That did seem to take the brown stain off with the Coker cleaner. I hope it stays off, and no more Westley's!

I wonder why the brown staining always goes from the outer diameter of the WW toward the inner diameter?

Thanks for all your help and suggestions.

[IXLR8]

From Diamond back Tires:  http://www.widewhitewalltires.com/why_choose.html


WHY DIAMOND BACK WHITEWALLS DON'T TURN YELLOW

Why whitewalls eventually lose their whiteness and start to look yellow is no mystery. It happens because the chemicals from the black rubber eventually leach into the whitewall rubber. Then, over time, those chemicals will bleed right through to the surface of the softer white rubber, where light and air turn them yellow over their entire surface.

But I have an answer to that problem. A few years back, I came up with a way to keep all that from happening. It involves a white rubber formula that I developed myself, and now, that formula is a closely guarded secret (like that famous fried chicken recipe). Today, our whitewall material is actually made up of three layers, not just one.

The bottom layer is black rubber for maximum adhesion to the tire’s sidewall. It’s the exact same rubber formulation they use to make truck retreads — very strong stuff. That’s because “like materials” bond best. In the middle is a special butyl barrier layer. The butyl layer blocks the staining chemicals that will try to come through from the back. Nothing can pass through this layer. The white “face” layer itself is made up of my own white rubber formula. This is why Diamond Back claims its whitewalls are whiter, and that they will also stay whiter. It’s not an empty claim, and I don’t take it lightly — and neither should you. I just wanted you to know how we can make that claim in our marketing and advertising. I say it because it’s true.


Joe

[mdsalemi]

Hi Joe,

The staining that we are talking about is not "leaching" through the white rubber, as Diamondback indicated, but is caused by compounds loosened from using certain cleaners, and then "drooling down" over the white wall.  At least, that's what mine was all about.

Diamondback is a good source for those (and there are plenty) who simply don't like, won't buy or don't want anything to do with the Cokers.  Diamondback will put a white wall on any tire, though when all is said and done it can get just as expensive as the Cokers--maybe more depending on the tire you choose.

It is a good way of choosing a tire by performance characteristics, and then adding the WW to it if one chooses.

[RickM]

The white section of a tire will inherently have aging problems.
The white section does not have the sacrificial carbon black to protect it from the effects of UV. That's the reason tires are black and not other colors.
A good protectant, as mentioned above, will help.

I don't know if was mentioned here but some have good results using Orange GOJO with pumice.

Hope this helps.