Fitting Getrag 5 Speed Gear Box

[Garry]

Well I have finally given up on obtaining a 5 speed ZF for the car at a reasonable price and decided to give a Getrag 265 5 speed conversion a try instead. I am told it will be much easier to maintain and a much smoother gearbox than the ZF anyway!!  Thought about the T5 but decided to stick with the Getrag 265 as it is easier to get it and parts here in Australia.

After some exchanges of emails with another member, Mark Bull in UK re the conversion and what is needed I have located a BMW Getrag 265 5 Speed with standard overdrive (as distinct from the 5 speed with dog leg) in good condition (I hope). Currently on its way from Queensland 3,000km north.  When I finally get it I am then going to get a conversion kit Mark has developed and install the new box in the car.

Several years ago I did the rear axle conversion from a 4.08 to a 3.46.  Whilst I still have the original axle, I plan to leave the 3.46 ratio axle in at this point and see how it goes with the option of changing back to the 4.08 if necessary.  Anyone had any experience with the lower axle ratio on a 5 speed?

Hopefully I will be able to document the conversion as it occurs.  Parts costs expected so far are $AUD 1,200 or about US$1000 and that covers gear box and conversion kit.

Garry

[jeffc280sl]

Garry,

I have the 3,27 axle and standard SL 4 speed.  I think its perfect.   What is the 5th gear ratio?  Maybe its close to my final drive ratio.

[Garry]

I believe it is 0.81 and all the ratios are close to the ZF except the ZF was normally fitted with a 4.08 rear end.
With my 3.46 and a four speed I think it matches well so a 3.27 to a four speed should be similar to the 3.46 to the 5th gear? right??

[jeffc280sl]

Garry,

3,000 rpms in my car with 3.27 rear and 1.0 trans final ratio makes  68.23 mph

With a 3.46 rear and .82 trans final ratio your car would make same mph at 2,600 rpms.  This will make your car a real highway cruiser in 5th gear.

I love the color of your car....maybe because its the same as mine!

[Garry]

Given we have an overall speed limit here of 110kph, or about 68mph it will be very low revving but 95% of my driving is highway so should make for some pleasant cruising.

[jeffc280sl]

Should be great and improve gas mileage.

[abe280SL]

I have a 1973 BMW 3.0CSI (E9) with an overdrive Getrag 265. Reverse is in the upper-forward left and overdrive in upper forward right.  The dogleg has reverse & 1st in one axis, 2nd & 3rd another axis, and 4th & 5th in the last axis.
You might want to look at e9coupe.com site and do a search under Getrag...you will find alot of info as it is a popular conversion from the 4 speed.
abe

[Shvegel]

Garry,
I too am in the midst of the same conversion. Regrettably my car has been at the at a friends having some metal work done for the past 3-1/2 years so I am sort of stalled.

Here is what I know from experience:
The spline pattern of the Getrag will fit the 113 clutch disc.

Use the 113 Bell housing, You will need to drill and tap the bellhousing so you can bolt in the casting that holds the clutch bearing on the 113.

The area that carries the clutch bearing on the Getrag needs to be cut off but leave the area that holds the Getrag front seal so you can keep the oil in the Getrag

I believe the proper thickness for the adapter plate is 17mm(I used 19mm aluminum plate). The bolt patterns are very tight to each other.

Use the pilot bearing from the 113 to fit the flywheel. You will have to make an adapter busing to bush the inside of the bearing down to the smaller pilot on the Getrag. I spent hours looking for a proper bearing but I am almost positive there is not one(I am really good at sourcing stuff like that).

I haven't done the shifter yet but I am almost sure you will be ahead of the game if you use the BMW shifter and add the Mercedes lever.

Most Getrag 265's do not have a Mechanical speedo. You will need the parts from one that does so you can convert it.

That's as far as I have gotten. The things I am sure will be interesting are the mounts, Driveshaft and getting the speedo connected and calibrated.

[Garry]

Thanks Abe and Shvegel,

I am doing the conversion with a lot of help from Mark Bull, another UK member on the forum who is putting together a conversion kit.  At this point I am still awaiting delivery of the Getrag 265 gearbox that i located here in Oz.  An interesting point on the mechanical speedo.  To be honest I had not thought about that and am not sure what the gear box I have coming has on it and that will be another item to work through.

Garry

[Garry]

Take one 5 speed Getrag Gear box P/N 262 05100 arrived today.
Conversion kit on order from Mark Bull  (Forum Member mkbull)

[Garry]

Has anyone on the forum done an electronic speedo conversion.  I am deciding whether to change over the sender unit in the Getrag gear box from an electrical sender to a mechanical unit that I am told can be done fairly easily with parts from BMW or actually find a newer speedo with the same face from a Merc that is an electronic one and linking it to the sender unit.

Garry

[Ulf]

Not a real comment, just pondering the irony of using BMW parts to improve a Mercedes...

[hauser]

I have more confidence of BMW parts than say reproduction parts made in China!

[Raymond]

Garry,

I installed an Abbott Tach Cable-X box to convert the electronic signal from my T-5.   www.Abbott-Tach.com.  It's about $300 direct or from Jeg's etc.  

The install is fairly simple.  I picked up the hot lead and ground and came under the carpet from the shifter to under the driver's seat.  I fastened down the box with some industrial strength Velcro so as not to drill more holes.  I did put in a small sheet metal screw under the seat on the back of the cross member to ground the box and transmission ground wires.  There are two holes in either side of the cross member near the door with rubber plugs installed.  I ran the speedo cable through those holes and under the carpet to the extreme left of the floorpan and up the inside of the firewall into the back of the speedo.  

I have it matching the speed on my GPS now.  The set up requires a bit of math, but the instructions are good and if you have an issue, the tech at the factory is very helpful.  Adjustments are with dip switches, so be sure you have enough electric wire to leave the box on the floor in front of the seat so you can adjust the switches without having to remove the seat.  It took me about 6 tries to get it exact.

There is bit of wobble in the needle during slower acceleration, but it's fine at steady speeds.

[Garry]

Thanks Ray,

I wish I had taken a much closer look at your conversion at PUB last year, I was still dis-illusional that I would find a decent ZF for an honest price at that time.

I will have a look at that and also hopefully look at one of the UK Getrag conversions and see the mechanical method that they have done when in Europe later in the year for the Euro Tour.

For Ulif and Hauser,  I thought that some form of Getrag gear box had been used in some model Mercedes at one time but don't know the answer for sure. A bit like generic ZF boxes in lots of different make of cars.

[abe280SL]

They were used on Mercedes 240D, 300GD, 200GE, 280GE, G320, G300TD, G270CDI, G400CDI, G500, G55,...
They are very good transmissions and I would not put them down because they are coming from BMW.
abe

[Garry]

Now I have a Gertrag Gearbox, and the conversion Kit from Mark Bull.

Have decided to go with keeping the original Speedo and am awaiting the parts from BMW to convert their Getrag electronic speedo drive to mechanical. 
Hopefully next week parts arrive from Germany.

[Raymond]

Garry,

I would encourage you to take a lot of photos and write up an article for the next edition of Pagoda World.  This will give us two documented approaches to a 5-speed conversion. 

And, how much was the Bull conversion kit?

[Garry]

Hi Ray,

About $550 plus shipping.  The gear box  digital conversion with new BMW parts was about the same amount as well and a Getrag 265 gear box also about the same amount.

[Ulf]

  I'm certainly not putting down BMW - have a 5-series as my daily driver (two silver straight-6 engined German cars looks very teutonic in the driveway). A friend of mine had the gearbox in his old Maserati Biturbo replaced with a ZF once - that never failed again, but the rest of the car did on a weekly basis...

[Garry]

More parts.

The BMW worm gear, drive and spacer to be installed on Getrag 265 to convert the drive from electronic to mechanical.

[jaymanek]

Hi Garry,

Ill be attempting mine this weekend after finally gathering all the parts necessary. Lets hope it goes smoothly!

[stickandrudderman]

It seems that Pagoda owners in the UK have snapped up every 265 going! I found it so difficult to get hold of one that eventually when I was offered a second one I bought that too just in case I get another request to install one.
It seems that these boxes are much sought after for other installations too, not least of which is the AC cobra boys.

[jaymanek]

Yes these boxes have a hell of a following... Good luck with the conversion!

[chrysler1955]

Hoi Garry,

The combination 1:3,46 axle  and Getrag 265 gear box works perfect. I still can reach 200km/h in 5 gear of course under good conditions.

I wish you luck with your conversion.

Peter

Well I have finally given up on obtaining a 5 speed ZF for the car at a reasonable price and decided to give a Getrag 265 5 speed conversion a try instead. I am told it will be much easier to maintain and a much smoother gearbox than the ZF anyway!!  Thought about the T5 but decided to stick with the Getrag 265 as it is easier to get it and parts here in Australia.

After some exchanges of emails with another member, Mark Bull in UK re the conversion and what is needed I have located a BMW Getrag 265 5 Speed with standard overdrive (as distinct from the 5 speed with dog leg) in good condition (I hope). Currently on its way from Queensland 3,000km north.  When I finally get it I am then going to get a conversion kit Mark has developed and install the new box in the car.

Several years ago I did the rear axle conversion from a 4.08 to a 3.46.  Whilst I still have the original axle, I plan to leave the 3.46 ratio axle in at this point and see how it goes with the option of changing back to the 4.08 if necessary.  Anyone had any experience with the lower axle ratio on a 5 speed?

Hopefully I will be able to document the conversion as it occurs.  Parts costs expected so far are $AUD 1,200 or about US$1000 and that covers gear box and conversion kit.

Garry