Ok, now I REALLY need the forums help Broken Water Pump

[johnshenry]

11:30 AM EST.

250 miles away from home and the water pump is letting go.  Floppy and noisy, but no leaks yet.  I have just been told that there are no MB dealers in VT.  I'm in Stowe VT right now.

Will see if I can get one flown in, I have a decent set of tools.

Qs'

How hard is it to change the water pump?  Any out of the obvious things I should know?  I left my BBB at home!!

Ideas on how/where to get one ASAP?  HAd planned to leave here tomorrow!!!!


Off to phone part dealers, will check back... thanks for any help....  !

[jameshoward]

Good news! That's what the forum is here for.

First, your pump may last; is there water coming from the telltale hole?

Second, here is a list of the obvious things:

Before ordering the pump, read this post: http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=8820.0

There are 3 different pumps. Obviously you need the right one!

Then read this one (it'll reassure you) http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=8756.0

The job itself is very easy, actually. You can drop the radiator and do it, but if on the road you may be better off undoing one side of the bonnet and lifting that off (having marked the position of the fastenings so it goes back on in the same place - you can always tinker with it later to get it right). It is more easily done by removing the radiator, and that isn't a hard job either. Note that you can loosen the rad and it will slide forward to give you a little room to work (less easy if you have a shroud).

If you wanted to enjoy your trip and leave it to a shop, any garage could do the job in an hour or two.

If you're going to remove the rad, I'd strongly recommend you/ the garage drain it using the lower drain hose and NOT the drain plug at the bottom of the radiator. Here's why: http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=7663.0

Finally, if you're going to put in an order for the pump, you may want to change the little pipe shown in the photos.

If you have any more questions, shout.

JH

[johnshenry]

Ok, I contacted Mike at Black forest and he has the pump.  Fed Ex says they can get it here by 10:30 am tomorrow.  Thanks for the tip..  I'll get it on its way out here then figure out how best to get it changed....

[johnshenry]

So if it isn't leaking water, do I have a shot of being able to drive it home?  I can grab the fan and feel a good bit of play in it.  It is making a rumbling sound, kind of like a blower motor.

What risks do I take if I drive it??? Can the fan come loose enough to whack the radiator??

I have to decide ASAP if I want to drop $400 to have the new pump shipped here or not!!!


Thanks

JH

[johnshenry]

Just got off the phone with Mike, he advises against trying to drive it home.  I will process a Fed Ex and will get the pump on its way.  Wow, Mike at Black Forest is a great guy!

JH

[jameshoward]

$400!! For a $80-100 pump (and that's list price converted into Euros, so you can probably better it)? Is it coming by helicopter?

The decision about the pump is down to you, I think. Others may be able to give you a view on how long they last once tell tale signs of failure are there.

I drove mine for about 100km once it hard started to grumble. I took it easy and drove with the heater full on in an attempt to make the job of cooling less arduous. It was fine and not noticeably worse.

I suppose the down side if it seizes is that you could overheat.

[johnshenry]

Ok, apparently FedEx's definition of overnight is not the rest of the worlds.  Not possible to get it here for Sunday delivery.

Pump from black forest is $215, overnight delivery was quoted at $106, plus, etc.

So, still mulling over options.

[twistedtree]

How far do you have to go?  I think I'd start driving, take it easy, stop and check occasionally, keep a jug of water on hand, and at least see how far I can make it.

[johnshenry]

I've written off trying to drive it home.  It would be 175 miles.  If I get stuck somewhere, then I have far fewer options than I have now.

I have order BOTH types of pumps from Black Forest, they will be here Monday by noon.  I could not verify accurately the "long" or "short" pump, so Michael is sending both and I'll return or sell the one I don't use.

A town about 7 miles away has a bunch of service garages.  I may have them do it.  The thought of doing it in a parking lot outside in upper 40s weather, draining coolant, etc, does not appeal to me. 

Now trying to get a rental car for my wife to drive home tomorrow, she cannot stay another day......

[twistedtree]

Sounds like you have it under control as much as possible.  I certainly understand not wanting to work on it in a parking lot - been there, done that, don't want to do it again.

[johnshenry]

Tips for taking the hood off?  Best to remove the hood to pivot bolts, or pivot to body?  I will mark the position as best I can.

Tips for reinstalling?  I would think leaving them a bit loose at first and moving the hood a bit to get the best position?  The paint in it and the rest of the car is MINT, I don't want to scratch it.

Thanks...

JH

[jeffc280sl]

Sorry to hear about your problem.  I do not recommend removing the hood unless you have done it before and have an experienced helper.  The potential for scratches and alignment problems is just not worth it.  If you are going to do the work yourself I suggest buying or renting a pair of ramps and dropping the radiator out the bottom.  I think the biggest problem you will find is removing the fan.  It is a real pita and you need a long thin 13mm? wrench to do it.  The rest of the job is straight forward and do replace the short hose coming out the top of the pump.  I'm sure you can buy a radiator hose with the correct bends and id dimensions at any good auto parts store.  Then cut it to length on site.

The water pump has an outer and inner bearing.  I suspect if you have a fair wobble and no leakes your outer bearing has failed.  Its just a matter of time for the inner bearing and seal to breakdown.  Who is to say when exactly.

[SteveK]

I bet you'll get lots of different recommendations, so here's one more     Drive it as far as you can and then call a tow truck.  James had it right above, I bought a pump last year for $80.  It's also hard to tell what you really have until you get a very good look at it.  My pump turned out to be a short pump with a spacer vs. the long pump.   I'd vote for trying to get home and if that does not work have it towed and call a taxi.  Doing the pump right is important with thread sealant and while your there a new short hose to the thermostat housing and a new bypass tube.  It's a lot easier to do when you have some time with the hood off.  (I agree with Jeff above, taking the hood off on the road would be bad news but doing it at home with a little help is very easy. It doesn't weigh more than about 20 lbs)

Good luck!

[johnshenry]

Thanks for all the tips.  I now have a known European auto repair shop from my VW hobby 10 miles away who I will call tomorrow about doing the work.  The hood doesn't scare me, I don't have to get it aligned perfectly to get it home, I can put rags in the seams to keep it from scratching paint.  Again, trying to drive it home is not an option IMO.  I'd rather stay here an extra day/night with the help of a good shop and just get it done. 

I'll post again when get more details. 

[ja17]

Hello,

If your have an original style water pump, it has a plug where you can add heavy oil for lubrication. You can use a pump oiler to get lube into the water pump.

I bought a used Mercedes 500 miles from home one time. I intended on driving it home. After about 50 miles the water pump siezed and locked up.  I lubed the pump via the "weep holes" and got it free, but the bearings were obviously damaged.  Realizing that the fan blade causes most of the strain and load on the water pump I removed it altogether. The fan blade is just decoration when the car is moving and plenty of air is pushed through the radiator while the car is moving.My drive was nearly all interstate highway.  I drove the car the rest of the way home with no problems. I carefully monitored the temperature gauge especially when the car was not moving.

[jameshoward]

That's really useful information, Joe. Does the water still cycle through the jacket via convection if the pump doesn't work?

[graphic66]

I think Joe means to take the fan off and leave the water pump hooked up. I would get a quart bottle of Mobil One gear oil and fill up the pump bearings the best I could and drive it. Stop every now and then and squirt some more oil in there. I went hundreds of miles with a bad bearing on an AC pump once doing that. It was still working when I took it apart, the bearings were toast but it still turned. When It started squealing loud I would pull over and squirt some more oil on it. I personally would drive it like it is with the gear oil ready.

[johnshenry]

Interesting idea actually.  If the pump doesn't show up tomorrow, I might just have to try that.....!!

[ja17]

Yes,
The water will circulate as long as the water pump is left in place and is turning.  The pulley is re- bolted on with the belt in place with the fan blade removed. When the car is moving massive amounts of air move through the radiator. You would need to be cautious if you have to slow down or stop in traffic.

My thoughts on removing the fan blade were to reduce the strain on the damaged water pump bearings and to remove the wobling fan blade so it could not damage the radiator.

If the water pump starts leaking coolant you journey is near an end but can loosen the radiator cap to buy you a little more time on the road.  Make sure you have a jug or two of water so you can get yourself off the road if you begin to loose coolant. Your temperature gauge is your best friend at this point, keep an eye on it!

[johnshenry]

I was able to get two of the fan to hub bolts loose pretty easily.  Does anyone know if the fan/clutch can be removed with the radiator in place?  How long are the bolts, to you have to walk the fan out towards the radiator as you loosed the bolts to free them from the hub (if that makes sense).

Also, my car has the steel shroud behind the radiator.  Does that come out with the radiator?  Looks like it can't unless the fan/clutch comes off first.  Or do you unbolt the shroud from the radiator, then drop the radiator out of the bottom, then move the shroud forward and drop it out too?

Lastly, is the oil cooler bolted to the radiator?  Hopefully it doesn't have to come out with the radiator?

Thanks, still not sure who/where this job will be done tomorrow and if the part will even show up....

JH

[johnshenry]

Also, where is the "weep" hole?  I would expect at the bottom of the pump snout, but I have NO chance of being able to see that.  Where can gear oil be applied to the bearings??

[jameshoward]

Search for a hole on the body of the pump; it's the only hole there is. (Check out the photos of the links I posted you below, it may be visible there).

Not sure you can remove the fan and viscous coupling with the rad in place. A long skinny spanner (13mm??? can't remember) is the thing you really need. The shroud is held on by obvious bolts down the side and slips off easily without having to move anything. You can loosen the rad and slide it forward to get more room if not taking the rad out. Personally, I'd remove the rad, (from the bottom).

[johnshenry]

I can't see how the shroud could come off with the fan and radiator in place, even if the rad is moved forward a bit.  If I do replace the pump I will drop the radiator out of the bottom.  I visited a couple shops in town here and they look to be OK for this kind of work, but closed today.

Gamble is if Fed Ex will deliver the new pump or not.  No tracking # yet and my CC has not been billed, so I am skeptical.

[Louis]

 Between the cost of the rental car , the Fed Ex overnight and what the shop may charge you , was towing the car home such a bad option ? Just a thought....

[johnshenry]

Between the cost of the rental car , the Fed Ex overnight and what the shop may charge you , was towing the car home such a bad option ? Just a thought....

Having the car flatbedded 175 miles (I wouldn't have it towed) would cost a fortune, even if I could find someone on short notice to do it.  Believe me, I would MUCH rather do this myself in my own shop, but I don't have that option here.

Water pumps too, are one of those parts that you can never examine and determine when they will go.  I just got the car last Nov, and spent a good deal of time going over (and under) it before this trip.  Just the (bad) luck of the draw I guess.

As fate would have it, my wife ran into a friend from our town in a shop near the hotel yesterday, their daughter was graduating from a nearby college.  So she got a ride home with them today, rental car avoided.

Maybe he silver lining is that I will get to drive the 113 all the way home myself tomorrow, instead of sharing the driving with her..........!