230SL starter bendix

[saygold]

I pulled the engine out of my 230SL last fall and am finally finishing the last connection points.  I took a lot of photos when taking things apart, but i missed some items.  I placed this in the electrical section because the first question is the most important one.  I apologize if it should have been in elsewhere.
 
   1.       I need  a photo of the starter showing the electrical connection points. 

   2.       I have misplaced the nut that holds the power stearing pump pulley onto the housing.  I would appreciate the dimensions for     the bolt - I can get it locally.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Ken Deter
'66 230SL (euro, 4-spd)

[al_lieffring]

I seem to recall that the P/S pump has fractional size nuts and bolts. Bolts that thread into the bracket are Metric, bolts that go into the pump casting are USS. The pulley nut looks like 1/2" SAE.

The battery cable and main power suply cable (red) go onto the top (longer) 8mm stud.
The solenoid cable (purple) goes attaches to the outside of the two large studs with a slot head machine screw, If the starter has been replaced with a Bosch exchange unit (very likely) there will be two terminals, attach the purple wire to the smaller of the two. The larger one is not used on a 230SL.

[saygold]

Al,

Thanks very much for your quick response.  I would have had a hard time realizing the pump pulley housing bolt was in US SAE threads.

My starter used both of the terminals.  I was not sure where the missing connection was until your drawing (I was missing the bolt at terminal 16 - M4 thread).

Best regards,
Ken
'66 230SL (euro, 4-spd)

[rwmastel]

I seem to recall that the P/S pump has fractional size nuts and bolts. Bolts that thread into the bracket are Metric, bolts that go into the pump casting are USS. The pulley nut looks like 1/2" SAE.

Why would they have done this?

[mbzse]

Why would they have done this?

"Done this", well, it was not any active choice on behalf of the M-B designers.
The power steering pump was manufactured designed by the Vickers company, in UK. the United States
Thus, it has inch measured hardware. And, as a result a couple of the mounting screws
are non-metric
/Hans in Sweden

[66andBlue]

.... The power steering pump was manufactured by the Vickers company, in UK.  ...

And I thought the pump was manufactured in the Vickers Bad Homburg, Germany, plant. 

[mbzse]

Hmm, interesting there, Alfred...
Of course we both ment "P/S pump designed by Vickers company, manufactured
in whatever country in whatever factory the company chose to establish
(like Bosch parts made in Spain or France....)
Well, I had the idea in my mind the Vickers company in question was the one in the UK
"Vickers Ltd - The company that grew into the famous engineering and armaments companies
of Vickers and Vickers-Armstrongs was started in 1829 by Edward Vickers, a miller of Mill Sands, Sheffield"

But, as I now checked facts, it turns out this "Vickers" company is American :
"Vickers Hydraulic Pumps
Harry Franklin Vickers (1898 - 1977) U.S. was an American inventor and industrialist recognized by the American Society of Mechanical Engineers as the "Father of Industrial Hydraulics". Vickers mechanical ability in combination with his electronic and engineering training formed the basis for his ability to invent, test and manufacture his early Vickers hydraulic pumps, which included the first hydraulic power steering system. He went on to invent numerous key components.
Vickers hydraulic Values and pumps were fundamental to the rapid growth of the hydraulic industry, including his most famous innovation, the balanced Vickers vane hydraulic pump. Vickers Inc. grew steadily, eventually moving its headquarters to Detroit to be closer to its major automotive and industrial customers"

Never cease to learn... this is truly great
Anyway, bottom line is "fractional size hardware in pump body due to US design"
/Hans in Sweden

[bogeyman]

Back in the '80s I had an early 107 that the power steering pump was going out on.
I had a neighbor that was an engineer.  He stopped by while I was removing my bad pump and I mentioned to him how much I was going to have to spend on a new MB pump.  He said "I make that pump here in Omaha".  It was true, Vickers had a plant here then and he got me a new one for about 1/3 of the cost of an orginal from MB.

[al_lieffring]

If the pump was in fact of British origin, the fasteners would be British standard. American threads have a cross section of 60 deg, British are cut at 45deg.
Even worse the hardware could be Whitworth.

[RickM]

If the pump was in fact of British origin, the fasteners would be British standard. American threads have a cross section of 60 deg, British are cut at 45deg.
Even worse the hardware could be Whitworth.

Worse yet...it could have been made by Lucas 

[Mike Hughes]

Most Whitworth and BSF (British Standard Fine) threads have a thread pitch of 55 degrees.  Metric and SAE threads almost all have a thread pitch of 60 degrees.  There are some Whitworth threads on pre-war Morris, Wolsley, and M.G. engines that have a thread pitch of 60 degrees.  These are referred to in the hobby as "Nuffield Mad Metric" because they are essentially metric threads on a fastener with a Whitworth head.  This is because Morris motors acquired an entire engine plant full of metric machine tools when the French manufacturer Hotchkiss went out of business after WWI.  One can't use fasteners from elsewhere on those cars on the car's engine and vice-versa, even though they appear to be the same from the head size!  Fortunately it is easy to tell when one is using the wrong pitch thread because the fastener will "bind" in exactly 1.5 turns.

Don't get me started on "Joseph Lucas, the Prince of Darkness!"  Actually a Lucas starter is a pretty robust and reliable piece of equipment.  According the the date stamps, the starter in my 1937 M.G. TA is original to the car...  The starter in my 1951 M.G. TD is original to the car..  The starter in my 1954 M.G. TF is original to the car...  The starter in my 1967 MGB was replaced with one made in 1971...  The starter in my 1987 Jaguar XJ-6 is original to the car and the Lucas fuel injection has been faultless for 23 years and 139K. 

The original starter in my wife's 1966 MGB-GT was replaced with a modern pre-engaged starter when we changed out the original non-syncro first four speed manual transmission for an all -synchro four speed with electric overdrive from a later model MGB and changed over from positive earth to negative earth when we restored the car back in 2002.  This was a matter of choice, not necessity.  It was easier to order a new wiring harness off the shelf for a late model B that had all the connections for the later model starter and alternator, than to risk trying to modify the original 35 year old wiring when switching over from a generator and separate voltage regulator to an alternator with internal voltage regulator.