VDO Washer Bottle Bracket ?

[MRB43]

I am missing the metal bracket that holds the VDO Windshield Washer Bottle in place. It hooks through one of the two holes on the bottle.  I own a 1970 280SL and when I bought the car it was missing.  Any suggestions on where to locate one?  THX.

[66andBlue]

That is correct, there is no bracket.
The bag is wedged in. See the attached photo showing an original 280SL that was sold by Motoringinvestments.
Also see: http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=8435.0

[114015]

On the later cars, there's nothing holding it in place. It's tucked into a space where it rests unassisted. (Seems odd, I know.)

Douglas Kim

This is strange.....

The parts list 10202 (250/280 SL late) does not say anything about early or late (until VIN... from VIN ... on) - it lists the bracket for all 250&280ies.
It also doesn't seem to be a case of Euro versus US since some US cars have it (at least 250ies) and some not (Euro 280, but see pics with bracket on US-250 and US-280).
Odd...! How shall we learn this correctly when there are (mostly untouched) cars out that are different than the parts list tell us?
That's not fair....

Achim

[thelews]

Early '67 250

[Garry]

And here is to add a bit more confusion, a 250Sl LHD and a 69 280SL RHD water bottle fixtures

[66andBlue]

Achim,
what part number does your 10202 parts list show for the bracket with a single hook for the bottle on a LHD car?
I have never found a p/n for this bracket.
Garry,
it appears that all RHD cars have a bracket with two hooks for the bottle.

[Garry]

Alfred,

I think you are right. Mine certainly has the double ended bracket as per your diagram. The photo was pre restoration so at that time it was in original condition delivered UK.

[J. Huber]

Well, mine seems to have the single bracket.

[jacovdw]

...the bracket with a single hook for the bottle on a LHD car?
I have never found a p/n for this bracket.

Alfred,

The part number for the bracket for LHD cars is: A113 290 00 86
It is still available from the Classic Centre and retails for about 55 Euro.

You will find it in group 29 (pedal assembly/pedalanlage) of the EPC.

All RHD cars have the two-hook bracket as seen in the photo Garry posted.

[66andBlue]

Thanks, Jaco,
I would have never looked there.  Despite Dave Gallon's great presentation at the last PUB I have never grasped the logic that MB uses for its parts listing. The bracket for a LHD is in group 29 bunched together with pedals and brake stuff and the one for a RHD is in group 82/86 with the electrical system, but at least it is placed next to the washer fluid pump.
But this p/n 113 290 00 86 makes the puzzle even murkier.  According to the parts list it is used only on cars with manual transmission and both LHD and RHD!  

[114015]

Ok gentlemen,
I am fine with the two different brackets and also the fact that some cars might have it and others not (or maybe lost during their 39 years of existence).

But,
the pic of the 250 SL LHD that Garry shows is weird ! What is this?
It's obviously a pagoda - but the large welded bracket for the relais is missing; the relais are directly screwed to the inner left fender.
Also, the distance between brake booster and fender is different than in the (at least for me) absolutely correct scenary that James shows on his  1963 230.
What kind of weird 250 lefthand is that???
Ahhh, I got it! Is seems to be the Pininfarina 230 of which you (Garry) showed pictures in another post? I do well remeber that the "dimensions" of engine hood versus fenders is somehow different than on real pagodas. 
Oh boy, how confusing.

Despite Dave Gallon's great presentation at the last PUB I have never grasped the logic that MB uses for its parts listing. The bracket for a LHD is in group 29 bunched together with pedals and brake stuff

Alfred,
As to your comment,
the Mercedes logic for the parts listing is very logically - mostly (at least to me).
The reason why this bracket is a 113 290 part is that it primarily belongs to Group 29 - Clutch - and not to Group 82 Electrical system or Group 86. The latter is only an additional function of that bracket. The primary sense is to hold the clutch fluid (= brake fluid DOT 4) cannister on the manually shifted cars.
In contrast the RHD parts number is 112 860 0014 - within the Group 86 - Windshield washer system.

But this p/n 113 290 00 86 makes the puzzle even murkier.  According to the parts list it is used only on cars with manual transmission and both LHD and RHD!  Shocked Huh

Yes, Alfred,
That's a bit odd on the first glance.
But, is it really? The bracket 113 290 0086 is primarily the bracket for the clutch fluid reservoir ... BTW, where do RHD cars (manual) have this cannister? Isn't that one bolted to the RHD oriented brake booster support as well? Unfortunately I do not currently have a picture of that RHD scenario right now ...

"Tja, ist alles nicht so einfach - wie im wirklichen Leben."

Best,
Achim
(who loves these differences in details)

[Garry]

As I said a photo to confuse you and Achim gets the cigar for correct identification of the 230 bracket from the Pininfarina car.
Here is the brake/clutch setup for RHD car

[114015]

Garry,

Thanks a lot!  You "confused" me first and clarified this with you last post. 

But, gentlemen...,
The problem hasn't been solved to the full extend.
OK: LHD and RHD cars have different brackets for the VDO washer bottle as mentioned above (112 860 0014 for RHDs) and on LHD cars the bottle is attached to the 113 290 0086 bracket ... which basically all LHD cars "should have" and all stick-shift cars, LHD and RHD. Is this summary correct so far?

Then, please look at the pics again.

a) Bracket from James 230 (1963) - with only one branch to the right turn from the spectator's view) - for the wash bottle; this bracket is L-shaped.

b) Bracket from the Pinin-230 - with two branches - one for the bottle, one for the black Bosch (0 332 008 001) relais - This bracket is T-shaped by looking from above from the bird's view.

c) Garry's RHD bracket for the clutch cannister - bended to the right - for the cannister. Also L-shaped but in the different direction than the long branch on the T-shaped bracket - and no branch for a washer bottle.
 

All three brackets are different. So, are there different versions of this bracket? And with that the part number never changed, has it always been 113 290 0086? At least that's what the parts lists tell us!

Enclosed is a picture of Bob cascadia 's barn-find SL, which also has the two-armed bracket (the T-shaped bracket like on the Pinin-SL) but with the cannister attached - a stick shift car. (The round clamp comes with the cannister upon delivery.)

Now, is there an evolution of this bracket 113 290 0086?

- First, the one like James has (and me, with my 1964 car)
- second, the two-arm bracket (T-shaped), 1966, 1968?
- finally the bracket only with the branch to the left for an additional relais or (radio) fuse box but no longer with the branch to the right for the washer bottle. This one is the one as Alfred mentioned initially; e.g. on a 1970 car (see the pic of the 1970 Euro 280 below).

And how about Garry's RHD bracket for the clutch cannister?
That one looks authentic and factory to me but is bent to the opposite direction than the "relais/fuse box" branch of the other brackets above... It is L-shaped to the opposite direction.

So, in total we have four different brackets for the clutch reservoir cannister...
Isn't that weird?

And to make things even more complicated...
John (The Lews), please you have a stick-shift 250. Where do -you- have your cannister? You've got a clutch master cylinder (on one of your pics) but no reservoir. Is the clutch fluid been withdrawn from the main brake fluid reservoir? Was that a special scenario for a few 100s of cars, for the pre-002980 car which you have?
I am very confused here.

Because,  49's (please what is that gentleman's real name?) completely untouched white 1968 stick-shift 280SL (which he has owned from new) has the cannister _and_ the two-branch (T-shaped) bracket again!

Please, fellow aficionados...,
isn't this fantastically confusing? All in a tumble! 

I love it - but don't have a correct answer & solution for this. 
Do you?

Achim
(only bracket type a)

[114015]

... and the other pics (system was cheating me)


Achim

[66andBlue]

...  And with that the part number never changed, has it always been 113 290 0086? At least that's what the parts lists tell us! ..

Hello Achim,
sorry to disappoint you but the part number did change.
Early 230SL:  p/n 113 295 01 40
Late 230SL:  p/n 113 295 01 40 -> 113 290 0086 for LHD manual
                   p/n 113 295 01 40 -> 113 290 0240 for RHD manual
250SL/280SL: no change except that now both p/n are suitable for LHD and RHD manual cars.

Note the shape change of this bracket.
The early bracket had no extension with a hook for the washer fluid bottle, that showed up in the next version.
Also note that both versions have a tab pointing down. Dave Gallon informs me that this tab is used for a clip to hold the hood release cable (the photo).
So we have three functions for the later bracket:
(a) to hold the clutch fluid expansion tank on manual cars.
(b) to hold the washer fluid bottle on automatic cars.
(c) to hold the hood release cable in place (but perhaps only on manual cars??).

Attached to this bracket (with 4 ends) is  a L-shaped bracket to which a fuse box is mounted. It slides between the clutch fluid reservoir and the 4-ended bracket as shown in my photo below. It is also present on automatic cars when there is no reservoir.

What we haven't found is a p/n for the L-shaped bracket with a hook on James' car.  Is this really a single piece and not two??  
If it is in edition A of the parts list then I would sure like to know where. What is interesting is that it also has the tab for the cable clip. Is the tab bolted on?  {James you might consider moving the clip from its current location to this tab}
We also don't know the p/n for the bracket that holds the fuse box and when it came along, nor do we know whether the bottle was really just wedged in unhooked on later cars or whether this is just the result of a bracket having gone astray.
As long as the washer fluid bottle is full this is all bit trivial, or?    

[J. Huber]

Here is a closer look at my bracket. It is clearly two pieces total. The large piece that bolts to booster (2 bolts) has an angled tab. It corresponds to #75 in early 230 parts page. Then there is a small rounded bracket with a hook that bolts to large bracket with a small bolt.

As for the clip. I just tried to put it on the tab. Doesn't really work because the curved corner of the bottle is in the way. Can't really scooch up the bottle because it is "hooked" on. So its staying put for now!

PS I almost sprung for a new washer bottle from Dave G. but then it would make my yellowed brake fluid bottle look grungy, which if I replaced that, would make my yellowed fan blades look out of place...you get the picture.

[thelews]

Mine's bonded.

[49er]

Garry,

Thanks a lot!  You "confused" me first and clarified this with you last post. 

But, gentlemen...,
The problem hasn't been solved to the full extend.


Because,  49's (please what is that gentleman's real name?) completely untouched white 1968 stick-shift 280SL (which he has owned from new) has the cannister _and_ the two-branch (T-shaped) bracket again!

Please, fellow aficionados...,
isn't this fantastically confusing? All in a tumble! 

I love it - but don't have a correct answer & solution for this. 
Do you?

Achim
(only bracket type a)

Here is a very old picture of my 1967 250 SL engine compartment and if you look closely, the washer bracket appears to be identical to the the 280 SL's. I took delivery of the 250  in May 1967. You will have to read my "new member introduction" to see what happened to it:-(

Regards, John (aka "49er")

[114015]

Here is a very old picture of my 1967 250 SL engine compartment and if you look closely

John .... !!!!

Sake's heaven. Do you know what _that_ is??

Your old engine bay is clearly one of the extremely rare absoutely

"untouched reference original engine bay" pictures !!!

Not one of the very well cared, beloved and pampered engine bays with cosmetic refinement that we have so common today (which are fantastic BTW)

Wow!
This pic belongs into the coffee table book!
It's as valuable as the both factory original engine pics in the early 230 and early 280 SL sales brochures that all of us admire so much.

I should talk to the Motorbuch Verlag in Stuttgart, Germany who is (hopefully) scheduling to reprint the "Engelen" book again in the next future.
Your pic should be included there!

This is way more worth than my 2 cents.

Achim
(loves original untouched engine bays)

[114015]

Hello Achim,
sorry to disappoint you but the part number did change.
Early 230SL:  p/n 113 295 01 40
Late 230SL:  p/n 113 295 01 40 -> 113 290 0086 for LHD manual
                   p/n 113 295 01 40 -> 113 290 0240 for RHD manual
250SL/280SL: no change except that now both p/n are suitable for LHD and RHD manual cars.

Dear Alfred,
You are so right here; thank you very much for correcting me on this.
I should have better taken care of these observations ...
Thanks a lot.
Let us place these (your excellent) pics in the WIKI, this info should not go lost.

All the best,
Achim

[49er]

Achim,
 Thanks for your kind words. I wish I had more pictures of the engine compartment but so far I have not been able to locate them. I will keep looking. I do have however a black and white photo taken of my 280 SL's engine compartment taken the day I drove it home from the dealer. Realize that these pictures shown here are not at the highest resolution. I can e-mail you the higher res versions if you are interested.

John

[114015]

Hello John,

Thanks a lot for _your_ kind words!

How beautiful  the untouched 280 engine bay is!
There is so much similar or identical to what your 250 was. Look at the Varta battery. When have you seen that one for the last time - other than in the sales brochure?
The different stickers on the valve covers of both cars, the assortment of different types of Gemi and non-Gemi clamps - just fantastic.

Yes, I would love to get these pics from you at high resolution. Just provide me with a PN offline, please.

Thank you so much in advance.

I will try to do what I can. Contacting the Motorbuch Verlag (Publishers) in Stuttgart is an easy one but getting access to the "right" person in charge for the re-edition of this book will surely be difficult. As difficult as to track down where Günther Engelen, the book's author lives and resides.  Near Stuttgart from what I know but not more.
I will try to see what I can do.

Best,
Achim
(original-enginebay-picture-collector)

[jacovdw]

I know it has been a while since we last touched on this topic, but herewith a few pictures I found in my "archive" of bracket (A113 290 00 86) I bought for my 230SL in 2005.

[MRB43]

Thanks for the part number..very helpful.

Mark