Orbital Polishing

[J. Huber]

I wasn't quite sure where to fit this. The question is not about my 230SL but another vehicle. I have a 2003 Ford F-150 SuperCrew that is a pretty deep blue. Actually almost a 332 with a bit of metallic in it. I use this truck a lot up here for hauling tree trimmings, yard waste, etc so the paint has its fair share of scratches. I recently decided to it was time to clean it up a bit -- either for resale or just to prolong its life with us. It has 85K and has been a very good truck. I attempted to rub out a few large scratches by hand with some turtle wax rubbing compound I have had in the garage for 15 years, then hit it with McGuires #7 polish. It turned out ok -- but not fantastic, as a few scratches remain. And the places where I used rubbing compound look worse than when I started! Dull and scratched. I stopped by the paint guy who has worked on my Pagoda -- he seems to think almost all the scratches will disappear if he uses Number 2 compound and then Polish -- both done with the Orbital. All to the tune of 575 bucks! Struck me as high? Really high. Sooooo... is it time for me to buy an orbital and figure out how to use it? Anyone want to throw some encouragement my way? Brands? Chances of me learning how its done -- without wrecking anything? The Pagoda has always been hand-polished only (except for when it was in a paint shop).

[thelews]

How much time do you have?  

The only way to permanently remove scratches (pits, specks, etc.) is to remove material...to the level that the scratch no longer exists.  The general rule of thumb is that if you can feel the scratch with your fingernail, you're sh*t out of luck.  The others will "buff" out.  Now "buff."  That's a term that means a lot of things to a lot of different people, but generally, it is used interchangeably to mean polishing or glazing.  Back to the scratches.  Polishing removes material around the scratch until it all becomes a level surface and there is no scratch.  We're talking microns here, unless you can feel it (see above).  Glazing levels the surface by filling in the scratch (think of how a woman fills her wrinkles with foundation).  A level surface is what shines.  Polishing lasts (until further new scratching), glazing is temporary, especially if you wash your car alot.

So, now the "time" part for the permanent solution (polishing).  Time to level the surface is a function of "grit," the material used to remove paint surface material.  In order of speed...

Sandpaper
Heavy grit polish with direct drive buffer with wool pad
Lighter grit polish with direct drive buffer with foam pad
Heavier grit polish with orbital buffer
Lighter grit polish with orbital buffer
Heavier grit polish by hand
Lighter grit polish by hand

The process also goes from heavier grit to finer grit.  The finer the grit (polish), the smoother the surface, microscopically speaking, the higher the shine.  Then a glazing for good measure to fill any swirl or polish marks and a waxing for minor protection and more filler.

Obviously, the heavier grits, faster methods of removing material are the most dangerous.  Like shortening pants, once it’s gone, it’s gone.  Also heat is the enemy of paint.  Direct drive buffers create heat, orbitals do not.  Very hard to wreck your paint with an orbital buffer, but  I’ll do a better job in a lot less time with sandpaper and direct  drive buffers with polish, as the job calls for.

A variable speed direct drive buffer from Makita, a slower speed creates less heat, is a wonderful tool.  The 3M Perfect IT system with their wool and foam pads and various polishes is a GREAT product.  Oh, and don’t forget CLAY, great way to get the heavy sh*t off before starting the hard work.  The Porter Cable Orbital buffer is a nice machine, but if you learn to use a direct drive, you’ll never use an orbital (mine has sat in the cabinet for years).  Either can be found at very good prices at www.coastaltool.com.

I’ve just touched the tip of the iceberg here.  There are auto detailing websites that will keep you busy for weeks.  Just Google it.  I’ve been detailing cars since I was a teenager, it takes practice and your truck might just be the perfect candidate to get started.  Then you’ll do your Pagoda and find out what a real shine is!

[69280sl]

James:
If you do ultimately buy an orbital polisher, check out the one from Griott's Garage. They claim it cant burn or harm a paint finish. Good for beginners.

Gus

[thelews]

James:
If you do ultimately buy an orbital polisher, check out the one from Griott's Garage. They claim it cant burn or harm a paint finish. Good for beginners.

Gus

That's if he wants to way overpay.  The Porter Cable from Coastal tool is as good as they get and orbital is orbital, it'd be very hard to burn the paint, you'd have to try.

[J. Huber]

Thanks John, looks like I have to decide how far I want to get into this thing.... I would imagine I will go the orbital polisher versus the direct drive. But I do get a feeling that when I see those beautiful old cars at car shows, that they know all the tricks. Having a white Pagoda has helped me I think because it barely shows anything. If I understand it, the rubbing compound is buffed on which really dulls the panel. Then with a different pad, the polish goes on and this brings back the depth? Now what's this burn thing about?

[thelews]

Rubbing compound, polish, it's all the same, just different in the degree of grit it has, like sandpaper.

Rubbing with grit produces heat, rubbing period produces heat.  Heat melts paint.  Orbitals don't spin, they shake, so they don't create any substantial heat.

Heavier compounds remove stuff faster.  Lighter compounds level the surface more.  So, it's a process, start lighter, work to heavier as needed to get the job done and then back to lighter and lightest followed by glaze and wax.

[J. Huber]

Following up with a couple more questions.... Is the procedure you (John) are taking about the same with a clearcoat finish? Just wanted to be sure.

Also, anyone: one my car, a number of aluminum trim pieces have turned a very dull gray matte over the years. I have heard people say "oh that will polish right up" (to a chrome-like shine I think they meant).? I have tried by hand to no avail -- would the orbital be what is necessary for that? In other words, does the polisher polisher do metalwork too? Any pitfalls to that? Thanks fellers.

[dseretakis]

Wow that was great! Thank you.

How much time do you have?  

The only way to permanently remove scratches (pits, specks, etc.) is to remove material...to the level that the scratch no longer exists.  The general rule of thumb is that if you can feel the scratch with your fingernail, you're sh*t out of luck.  The others will "buff" out.  Now "buff."  That's a term that means a lot of things to a lot of different people, but generally, it is used interchangeably to mean polishing or glazing.  Back to the scratches.  Polishing removes material around the scratch until it all becomes a level surface and there is no scratch.  We're talking microns here, unless you can feel it (see above).  Glazing levels the surface by filling in the scratch (think of how a woman fills her wrinkles with foundation).  A level surface is what shines.  Polishing lasts (until further new scratching), glazing is temporary, especially if you wash your car alot.

So, now the "time" part for the permanent solution (polishing).  Time to level the surface is a function of "grit," the material used to remove paint surface material.  In order of speed...

Sandpaper
Heavy grit polish with direct drive buffer with wool pad
Lighter grit polish with direct drive buffer with foam pad
Heavier grit polish with orbital buffer
Lighter grit polish with orbital buffer
Heavier grit polish by hand
Lighter grit polish by hand

The process also goes from heavier grit to finer grit.  The finer the grit (polish), the smoother the surface, microscopically speaking, the higher the shine.  Then a glazing for good measure to fill any swirl or polish marks and a waxing for minor protection and more filler.

Obviously, the heavier grits, faster methods of removing material are the most dangerous.  Like shortening pants, once it’s gone, it’s gone.  Also heat is the enemy of paint.  Direct drive buffers create heat, orbitals do not.  Very hard to wreck your paint with an orbital buffer, but  I’ll do a better job in a lot less time with sandpaper and direct  drive buffers with polish, as the job calls for.

A variable speed direct drive buffer from Makita, a slower speed creates less heat, is a wonderful tool.  The 3M Perfect IT system with their wool and foam pads and various polishes is a GREAT product.  Oh, and don’t forget CLAY, great way to get the heavy sh*t off before starting the hard work.  The Porter Cable Orbital buffer is a nice machine, but if you learn to use a direct drive, you’ll never use an orbital (mine has sat in the cabinet for years).  Either can be found at very good prices at www.coastaltool.com.

I’ve just touched the tip of the iceberg here.  There are auto detailing websites that will keep you busy for weeks.  Just Google it.  I’ve been detailing cars since I was a teenager, it takes practice and your truck might just be the perfect candidate to get started.  Then you’ll do your Pagoda and find out what a real shine is!

[thelews]

Yes, James, same for clearcoat.  Clearcoat is the same material as paint, is paint, without the pigment.  When you start seeing color on the surface of whatever you're using to work the clearcoat, pad, sandpaper, rag, whatever, you've gone through the clearcoat (uh-oh).

[mdsalemi]

a number of aluminum trim pieces have turned a very dull gray matte over the years.

Aluminum does that after a while; I believe it is a reaction to hi-pH products.  I have a cast aluminum mallet I use in my kitchen and that is a dark gray now, where it once was bright.

Try using an acidic wheel cleaner (like Hot Rims) liberally, then polish.  You need to be agressive.

Once you get it clean, consider spraying your freshly cleaned and polished aluminum trim with a clear overcoat to protect it.

[wwheeler]

Concerning the orbital vs. direct drive polishers;

The Griot's orbital IS expensive and has a "friction clutch" so the orbital movement slows as you apply more force. It will stop if you apply too much force. It also spins at relatively slow speeds.That is why it won't burn your paint. Orbitals are meant to polish paint and not remove large amounts. I do not know if other orbitals have "clutches" and would be worth looking into that before you purchase one.

Direct dive polishers are dangerous to the paint in the hands of someone who hasn't used one. The spin very fast and have no clutches. You can burn the paint and go through layers of paint before you know it. They are primarily meant to smooth paint finishes (usually when new) such as to remove remove orange peel. Most people burn the paint on edges when using a direct drive.

You typically use different polishing compounds when using a direct drive versus an orbital because you are wanting to removing different amounts of paint.

I hope that helps.   

[thelews]

The Porter Cable works the same as the Griot's.

An experienced user of a direct drive will have a significantly better result in terms of shine and time.  They don't spin fast if you have a variable speed, it's up to the user.  There is an ideal speed at various stages of polishing.

Orbitals use different polishing compounds, just look at the Griot's catalogue.

I agree, in the wrong hands, a direct drive is a weapon on paint.