113 rust photos- need opinions

[domimax]

I have located a very nice low mile 1970 280sl- auto and working AC. Only 59k miles with all records to prove it.  The issue with this car is rust. It is not too bad. What do you guys think?

Pictures: https://picasaweb.google.com/daveallan.moss/113Rust#

[Raymond]

That photo of the left front floor pan looks like a candidate for a new floor pan.  Those are available from K&K.  Some of the rest just looks like old undercoating separating.  Hard to tell.  Consider driving the car to a body shop and asking for an estimate.

[domimax]

Thanks Raymond.

Anyone else have an opinion on this rust? Thanks, David

[J. Huber]

I think it would be a good idea (if possible) to peel back the carpet and inspect the corners of the floors where they meet up with the sill frame. Try and look beyond the rubberized insulation because it can mask rot underneath. While you at it, again if possible, remove the kick panels and poke around the inside cavity where the sills and rockers are. Use a flashlight and just have a good look. Also remove the back parcel shelf and look in those corners. Good luck.

[Shvegel]

It's tough to see from the pictures how bad it is. Are these pictures from the seller or did you take them?

Someone who knows what they are looking at really needs to see the car.

There are so many places these cars rust. I have over $10,000 in sheetmetal alone for my car. please don't rely on a few pictures from the seller.

Another thing to be aware of is if this car was originally sold in Europe. Sometimes cars are imported and the mileage reflects the miles since being imported Since the speedo would need to be changed from Kilometers per hour to Miles per hour for DOT compliance. On this car I THINK the US market had soft door pockets and the Euro version had hard formed pockets. Also the presence of bumper guards is also a good indicator of a US market car.

[domimax]

The pictures were taken by my mechanic. He estimated the rust repair at 6k and says none of the rust is damaging the structure of the car.

i just wanted to know what you guys think. I feel that actual owner's have a much different perspective then mechanics.

[jameshoward]

Surely it depends on the price as to whether the car is worth investing in.

The rust looks pretty bad to me, frankly. I've seen a few cars where a little rust turned out to be quite an awful lot of rust, but sadly these are the discoveries made once one starts to dig. So I'd suggest you expect a lot worse, perhaps. You should assume new sills, I think. And take a good look at the front cross member and around the firewall. You should also assume the underside to be in quite a state. J.Huber's advice is well worth following in detail.

Not sure what the asking price is, but a thorough search of this site will demonstrate that some cars that appear to have a few rust issues are actually in a very poor state. I'd get amongst the search engine if I were you and learn from those who've gone before you.

Do you have an idea of how much the owner wants?

[domimax]

We have agreed at 18k.

[lurtch]

Hi Domimax

A rusted area in the headlight pod or floorboard is no big deal, but a severely rusted jacking point - - -  IS A VERY BIG DEAL.

Larry in CA

[Naj ✝︎]

This one needs serious investigation

Naj

[114015]

Looks like a lot of rust hidden under body shutz and dirt.
It often looks much more "harmless" than it really is.
I think $$ 18 K is too much for a complete body repair candidate.

Just my 2 cents ...

[Garry]

I agree with Achim, from what I have seen price wise recently in US $18k is an awful lot to be paying for a car that has rust to that level in it. I would have thought only minor rusting at that price and not sill rust as Naj and Larry have pointed is an expensive fix.

[domimax]

Thanks for all illumination. Turns out the guy does not have a title, but a certificate of origin in German. His grandmother owned this car. Bought it in Germany in 1970. it has been registered in the USA, but never titled. I found that odd.

At any rate in believe in titles.

[Shvegel]

As I said earlier if the car was originally a European car it will have had the Kilometer per Hour speedometer changed to Mile per Hour due to DOT regulations along with USA spec headlights and marker lights. The miles listed(49K) are the miles since importation. A few card have slipped through with the KPH speedometer intact but they are few and far between.

I used to work in a really good foreign car shop and more than one customer bought a grey market car thinking it "Only has 29,000 miles on it." only to find it needed major mechanical work.

European SL's had a high attrition rate similar to the northern half of the US. That is why we are now seeing quite a few US 113's crossing back from the USA to Europe.
 
Just having an MSO from Germany usually means the car was never officially imported into the US. It was probably brought in under the condition it was going to be used her by a German National then returned to Germany.  If that was the case I don't think the car can be sold without being shipped out of the country first THEN imported through official channels.

[bsimaz]

You can get a title for it (in Michigan anyways) and I have done this.

Call your local (county) sheriff's office.  They will send an officer out to
look at the car.  You can declare it as abandon property and as long as
the car is not listed as stolen, he will issue a cert of ownership.   Take
that to the Secretart of States office and apply for a title.   A few (or more)
weeks later and one arrives in the mail.   

[stickandrudderman]

I'd say that car is in need of a very serious restoration and is definitely not for the faint hearted.

[Shvegel]

Bsinaz,
It is possible to get a title on basically anything by various means including bonding etc. However this car has never officially been imported to the US meaning it has no paperwork that even says it can be here.  I had friends that imported quite a few grey market cars in the 80's before the US government closed the door and made you keep the cars for yourself. Believe me when I say you don't want to mess with US Customs or DOT. 

[domingo_santo]

Dominax, the rust problems on your car are serious, under those pictures there is more. I do not want to discurage you but rust is costly to repair and usually a lenghy job, it might require to take apart some other parts to complete the job.  look under the rubber carpet of the trunk, you may want to look on the chassis rails on the back with a smaal stick like a pencil and push on theses parts to test if they are strong.  the underside protection of the car can be covering up some serious problem.
if you have not buy it do not confuse with low mileage, in the case of a rusted car is worth nothing.
good look and good eyes.

[gatorjaws]

just saw your post. You are going to need at least one frame rail (in the US they are called rocker panels) and who knows how many floor sections & some fab work because nobody sells everything its just not available. At least it wasn't when I did mine. I changed out both frame rails,5 floor sections,rebuilt large sections of both rear wheel wells. both of the sections where the driver seat bolts down and some other small places.I did all the work myself & it cost about $2500 for material. That was about ten years ago. I've put about 100,000 K on the car since so if you fix it right it will last. Mines a 66' 230 "grey car" with  the speedo in kilometers. I have the euro headlights too. Some other things on my car are different too but I don't know if thats the way it came or if some mechanic changed stuff because he didn't have the right parts. From my days working in a "nuc plant" I learned that you can fix just about anything if you have enough time and money. Good luck!

[john.mancini]

Don't buy it. You will be greatly disappointed by the extent of the underlying rust and greatly shocked by the cost and frustration to fix it.
John

[pj]

Hello David,
looks like you haven't posted since February. Did you decide to let this opportunity go by?

I also purchased a 230SL last fall that had a little more rust than I expected. I paid a few thousand less than the $18k you were thinking of spending. If you offered the owner $14k instead and cleared the issue with the title (what I think we call "ownership" or "registration" up here in Ontario), I would be optimistic about the value of this project for you.

It would be a shame to see a Pagoda opportunity lost.

Good luck!