Replacing front fenders

[Quin]

Since a few weeks I'm the owner of a 68  280SL   . The car needs to be refurbished , currently I'm stripping it. Some new plates are needed in the trunk , left front  floor , right front floor and as the front fenders are in poor condiction I will replace these completely . 
Probably there are some proud Pagode owners who can describe how I best can replace the both front fenders and  the front mask .  What are the "dangerous " handlings for taking off the fenders ? What are the special points off attantion to have them in the correct position back on the body . .
Also the " Radeinbaustrebe Left and Right"  need to be replaced and probably I also will need change  the "radeinbau Left and Right to have the body in good shape. Thanks in advance for some descriptions .

[Naj ✝︎]

I think you are talking major front end surgery.

I would look for a bodyshop with a proper jig.

Naj

[dseretakis]

You might want to consider repairing the fenders.  Patch panels can be fabricated and welded in place should you have rust. As you've probably already realized, the fenders are welded in place so replacement is no easy task.

[Quin]

Thanks for the description but I'm looking for more info how the best practice is for replacing the front fenders .
Reworking is not an option , the fenders are in a poor condition and are already repaired with polyester and they show cracks on several places  , the fixation from the headlights is a disaster and can not be repaired . Also I need to weld in some new parts under the fenders .
Appreciate to receive messages regarding this issue .

[VincentR]

Hi Quin,
I will try to describe the procedure as I have changed all the panels on my 280SL 1970 (i.e. :front end, front long bar structures inside the front fenders, front fenders, rear end and rear fenders).
I've some picture if you want.
If you don't have to change the front end, before to disassemble the front fender, you have to put the brand new front fender on the old one (still on your car) : then you will know where to cut properly the old fender and you will have the welding line at the right position for the newone (between front end and fender and between windscreen bay base and fender). As you maybe know the cut as to leave a little bit of space between the 2 parts to be welded because the metal part are increasing in volume during welding and you have to leave space to make the welding material going into the gap.
If you have to change the front fender I assume that you will also have to change the long bars inside the fenders (I don't remember the exact name of these parts) because they are often rusty on their top (where mud was staying). You will have also to change the 2 headlight bowls. These are particularly difficult to assemble on the fender and front end as the parts on the market do not match exactly but if you have one good body restaurer it will be ok (one tip : when the welding of front fender to the front end were achieved, we put into place the 2 bowls and before to weld them, we screwed them wit self tapping screw. Be careful because you will have to add "lead" / "tin" on the perimeter of the bowls (I saw that after the car was painted!!!) to be sure that the surface of the aluminium headlight structure is fully maching the surface of the bowl perimeter. I assume that MB assembly line had some dies to be sure to get the final geometry...
As regards the 2 long bars, you have simply to put the new ones at the place of the old ones an before welding (by spot welding) to be sure that the inner fender is in good condition (where the bar has to be spotted). Before to spot check the diagonal dimensions (upper/rear external point on left fender place near windscreen bay / down / front place of right fender and then the opposite).
When the bars will be spotted, then apply the two fender as blank assembly and also put the bonnet in the middle to check if you have enough space to put this bonnet. You will maybe have to erase the sides of the bonnet at the end (put one wool cover on the engine to place the bonnet in right position because you cannot use the bonnet fixing at that time).
It is better to dissassemble the windscreen as the front fender is welded up to the windscreen frame (except for 3/4 front fender panels).
Please confirm if you need some pictures.
Best regards.
Vincent R (France).
 
 

[VincentR]

Hello,

Please find one picture.
Best regards.
Vincent.

[VincentR]

Some more pictures.

[VincentR]

Last pictures

[VincentR]

Very last pictures.

Best regards.
Vincent R.

[Naj ✝︎]

Nice work, Vincent!!

Naj

[Quin]

Hi VincentR .
Thank you for the description you have made, it really is usefull information for me . I indeed also will replace the inner fenders and have new  "radeinbaustrebe"  Left and Right because they are gone. Looking to the result on your last picture , you have done a great job .  I still have a lot of refurbishing to do . If all goes well , I now have added a picture showing the  front side  as it is today .
Thanks .
Quin.

[VincentR]

Hi Quin,

I also replaced, as you understood, the 2 main structures + the right inner fender.
When I take a look at your car, it seems very rusty : where was this car in the past ?(near the sea with salt spray attacks or in one area where there is a lot of snow in winter and with consequence of big attacks of salt sray on the road). Where are you based (US or Europe?).
When we speak about US car in France we use to say :
- you find very good cars in their first painting and no rust if they were in dry area of California;
or
- you find car with nice restored painting but with a lot of polyester material over the rust...

I'm very surprised to see such a rust.
You better have also to change the inner fender. I send you in appendix picture of mine.

I welded it by making some holes along and then with the mig welding machine I welded it on the structure of the car. I had in fact not the spot gun allowing welding in surface (with the two contacts beside each other) I've only the simple gun with the two contacts in front each other (I hope you understand my approximative technical language in english, gun is certainly not the appropriate name).

Even it you need time and money, please don't make the work in half. Wait a little bit to get money and to buy the inner fender.You will then make one better job. And then you will have a very best car.
How are the rear fenders(and inner fenders? : mine were to be changed also) and the two rear chassis structures under the trunk floor? Mine were OK.

My advice : take your time : I spend all my free time during 2,5 years (i.e. app. 51 week ends + at least 12 full time weeks). And I had no engine to restore : the engine was the gift (the cherry on the top of the cake) because it was changed for one new block exchange in MB (compression at the nominal levels).
When the restoration was ended, I even did not run very much the car because it was to much work....And now about 2 years after I totally enjoy...
In the past I also restored one Spitfire MKII (Triumph) (see the site spitfireamicale.com : on the first page run down and find "la restauration de Vincent Romary" link) during the same period of time (but including also engine) and that was also the case : I was very tired...Now I like to run this car because it runs very smooth (good torque at low speed similar to the W113) and it gets one S/S exhaust (design as original / not double exhaust) and when I run through the little streets (with buildings on each side) it's a real pleasure...of noise.

I will conclude by saying that we are in fact a little bit mad with our old cars but it is good to enjoy in parallel of all these new technologies offered on the current market...

Best regards.
Vincent.

[ja17]

Hello Vincent,

Yes very nice job. Which brand undercoat material did you use? The texture looks very correct.

[VincentR]

Hi Ja17,

I used :
- standox paints;
- chromato phospahting prepaint protection when necessary (RM paints call it accromax); its between "yelow and green" color;
- stones protection (in the fender) : Peugeot aftersales "2 components" products  (you have to mix the hardener before use) that is applied with one low pressure gun. Peugeot is one car manufacturer in France. But you can find this kind of products in other brands. Then the inside of the fender were painted at the car final color. (silver grey 180).

Best regards.
VincentR.

[Quin]

Hi VincentR ,
Personal I'm based in the Northeast of Belgium . It indeed is a US car with a lot of polyester over rust 
It is my intention to refurbish the car completely by using original parts . I now already have a list with 21 body parts which I will replace . Probably some more will follow . My planning is to have the car ready within the next 22 months.  The engine was running very well before I toke it out of the car .  Regarding the rear fenders , they received a protection coating , at the inside , they really are looking good , but the true will come out after sandblasting ..
About being a little bid mad or crazy .. lucky for us , it is not causing any pain . 

best regards
Quin

[VincentR]

Hi Quin,

I would be happy to see your car after sand blasting : just to see it before your restore it.
One additional information : I succeeded to weld the front fender and rear fender by spotwelding (I had only one problem where the identification right side plate bracket : where I did holes on the fender and made mig welding.
I welded the rear external inner fender by mig (through holes) on the car and then succeeded to weld the rear fenders on the wheel arches by spot welding including one lead past that I added inside the metal sheets before assembly.
The junction between rear fenders and rear end was made by one mig welding and some copper fusion welding just under the light holes (to avoid water to go in the trunk).
Don't hesitate to send me questions (with pictures on which you will put arrows) I will then indicate you how I've welded.

Best regards and keep energy.
Vincent R

[parry]

Naj,

Reference the Pagoda mounted on the Celette jig above, I am looking for a set of brackets specific for the Pagoda for my Celette jig/bench and was wondering if the photos of the Pagoda above are of your car in the UK.

I wanted to locate either to buy or hire a set of brackets for a Pagoda for use in our workshop so that I can mount it for chassis replacement. Do you know of a UK contact or either if anyone has dimensions / diagrams of the brackets we can fabricate. I have the towers but also need the piston uprights (tubes that fit between bracket attached to body and towers).   

[hkollan]

I might be wrong but the pagoda shown  on the jig looks very much like a pagoda that has been showing up for sale on german ebay a number of times the last year. On the german pagoda forum its known as the banana pagoda, and has been heavily discussed and commented on in a not so positive way.
Few bananas are straight so I suspect this car has some serious issues in terms of bodywork.
Maybe Naj can correct me if I am wrong.

[Naj ✝︎]

Hi, Hans and Parry,

Yes, indeed, this is a borrowed picture, only, I did not remember where I got it, so thanks Hans.

Another member Shvegel (I believe) had asked if there were brackets available for the Pagoda to be used on the Celette or similar jig. I made some enquiries at the time and was told that the brackets were not available even when the Pagoda was new.

This picture proves that these brackets do exist, but I have no idea where to find some. A friend who has the Celette jig system did make enquiries for me, but no answers were found!

Naj

[JamesL]

I think I have just seen the future for my car and don't like it...

Headlamp bowls and surrounds are going. Inner finder under brake servo has been repaired and rust was creeping twoards the suspension turrets on both sides... eek. At least it's good to know that the engine can stay in...

[parry]

Hi Hans / Naj,

Many thanks for the information. Now I do remember seeing that Pagoda.

The Celette jig I have is from 1980's MUF7. The jig above is the earlier model. We had the same in our workshop in LA which had the correct fitting's for the Pagoda  (business was sold with equipment). These may not be W113 specific but possibly brackets were adapted to fit from other models.

I have MB Service Body Work WSM production years 1959 - 1967 and covers 230sl, and various W111 models. It has a photo of the above Celette jig with either W113, W111 or W112 mounted on Celette with sill clamps. It specifically mentions:

'Stationery straightening bench e.g. as produced by Celette, France can be used both as a measuring jig and together with hydraulic straightening tools (eg the ten ton damage dozer produced by Messers Black-Hawk, USA) as a straightening table.'  

Addtionally listed in the WSM is a MB Chassis Base Panel Gage 111 589 14 23. It lists instructions for the Models 190c, 190 Dc, 220b, 220 seb, Sedan and Coupe and 300se, but not the W113. I do know that MB produced a similar gage for the W121 190SL.

Wonder if there was one for the W113.