Author Topic: Will a 280SL fuel injection pump work on 230SL?  (Read 14284 times)

Sirasila

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Will a 280SL fuel injection pump work on 230SL?
« on: August 14, 2011, 18:46:09 »
Just that. I will most likely have to send my pump off for a rebuild in the US and am wondering if a 280SL FI pump will work on my 230SL.
I have very little mechanical knowhow, but is it possible to do this?  How long will a 230SL pump take to rebuild? Is a rebuilt 230SL pump as good as a 280 pump? Please help.  I just happen to have a friend who has a 280 pump I can use if it will work.

IXLR8

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Re: Will a 280SL fuel injection pump work on 230SL?
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2011, 18:49:39 »
Hi--

I'm no expert, but my understanding is that the later pump may be used, although it will take some calibrating to function properly.

Joe

Benz Dr.

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Re: Will a 280SL fuel injection pump work on 230SL?
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2011, 20:09:03 »
No, it won't work. The engine will run but it will be far too rich. I had a 280SL pump on a 250SL and it was too rich for that engine so it would be even worse on a 230SL.

Turn around time for rebuilding is usually two days or less. Shipping time is more in most cases.
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

nadeem

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Re: Will a 280SL fuel injection pump work on 230SL?
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2011, 22:04:52 »
yes you can use 280sl injection pump for 230sl but it needs som adjustments. the adjustment is described in original mercedes benz workshop manual.

Benz Dr.

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Re: Will a 280SL fuel injection pump work on 230SL?
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2011, 17:59:59 »
Why are you telling this guy that? This isn't a simple adjustment that will cure everything.
  Listen up, don't do it!
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

Cees Klumper

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Re: Will a 280SL fuel injection pump work on 230SL?
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2011, 21:48:09 »
For one thing the 280 pump will have an external oil line that the 230 will not (self-comtained oil supply), right?
Cees Klumper
1969 Mercedes 280 SL automatic
1968 Ford Mustang 302 V8
1961 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Coupe 1600
1962 FIAT 1500S OSCA convertible
1972 Lancia Fulvia Coupe 1.3
1983 Porsche 944 2.5
1990 Ford Bronco II

mdsalemi

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Re: Will a 280SL fuel injection pump work on 230SL?
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2011, 22:01:02 »
Listen up, don't do it!

As Cees mentioned there is the oil line.  But when Dan says "Listen up, don't do it!" proceed at your peril.  You might very well end up with an expensive, undrivable mess on your hands that will take a lot of money and effort to sort out.  Here in the USA we call this "Mickey Mouse mechanics" and often curse the PO (previous owner) that corrupts the integrity of the car by trying this things.  Yes, it may work.  So will shoehorning a Chevrolet V8 engine under the hood.

Select a FI pump rebuilder; be sure to send off your injectors for testing as well.   Do it once, do it right.  You will not be sorry you chose this path, but run every risk of cursing yourself if you start putting unsuitable pumps in place...

But hey, that's just my opinion...
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

Benz Dr.

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Re: Will a 280SL fuel injection pump work on 230SL?
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2011, 15:32:03 »
  There are two different styles of oil lines. Those with the check valve and those that are a line without a check valve. You have to match the oil line to the pump and you have to match the pump to the engine.
There is only one pump used on a 230SL; the R11. This pump requires an oil line with a check valve.
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

Jonny B

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Re: Will a 280SL fuel injection pump work on 230SL?
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2011, 16:08:48 »
Michael has good words about the injectors. Even new ones can be bad (ask me how I know about that one!). They need to be tested to ensure they have the proper spray pattern and do not leak.
Jonny B
1967 250 SL Auto, DB 568
1970 280 SL Auto, DB 904
1966 Morris Mini Minor

Sirasila

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Re: Will a 280SL fuel injection pump work on 230SL?
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2011, 15:45:12 »
Thanks for all your input.  After having my R11 Fuel injection pump rebuilt by a bosch specialist here in Bangkok, it seems to be great.  I had the fuel injectors themselves looked at and that seems to be the cause of the problem as well.  So after replacing these, things should be looking up.
Thanks for the comments. :)

69280sl

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Re: Will a 280SL fuel injection pump work on 230SL?
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2011, 17:04:09 »
 After having my R11 Fuel injection pump rebuilt by a bosch specialist here in Bangkok, it seems to be great.   well.  So after replacing these, things should be looking up.


Do I understand correctly that you had your pump rebuilt and re-installed in a little more than one week?
Gus

68 280sl, signal red/ beige/black softtop. Car # 1084

Sirasila

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Re: Will a 280SL fuel injection pump work on 230SL?
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2011, 19:33:42 »
Yes. About 2 weeks in total actually.  I found through a friend here in Bangkok a German gentleman who was for several decades a 300SL gullwing specialist and has worked on more than 47 of them in Europe and Thailand.  He seems to be very knowledgable about classic mercs in general and was able to help with the rebuild and replacement spares.  Across town is also the an Bosch center which has the neccessary parts for the Fuel injection pump. 
:)   

mdsalemi

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Re: Will a 280SL fuel injection pump work on 230SL?
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2011, 21:50:20 »
That is NOT what Gus wanted to hear...
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

Sirasila

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Re: Will a 280SL fuel injection pump work on 230SL?
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2011, 16:00:34 »
That is NOT what Gus wanted to hear...

I'm sorry.. Did I say something wrong?  ???  Is there something I should be looking at that's been overlooked? please help.

Sirasila

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Re: Will a 280SL fuel injection pump work on 230SL?
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2011, 16:13:09 »
The fuel injection pump was returned and he installed it and made adjustments.  He brought me some new injectors as well and when tested, 2 of the new ones had problems and had to be replaced again.  I didn't have to pay for those.  Finally he made some tweaks here and there and after that my car ran like it just got cured from bronchitis.  Smooth and even.  Driving it just took me back in time a couple of decades.  I couldn't be happier.  I think there are something else that need work on the trans but I'll try it out for a week first and go from there.

69280sl

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Re: Will a 280SL fuel injection pump work on 230SL?
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2011, 17:35:06 »
I'm sorry.. Did I say something wrong?  ??? 

No. You did not say anything wrong. I was curious because it took much, much longer for me to have my pump rebuilt.
Best of luck with yours.
Gus

68 280sl, signal red/ beige/black softtop. Car # 1084

66andBlue

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Re: Will a 280SL fuel injection pump work on 230SL?
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2011, 21:34:37 »
Gus, how much longer? What happened??

I shipped my pump to the other Gus at Pacific Fuel Injections and he shipped it back about 3 weeks later.
Considering that he is 70+ years old that is pretty fast for an 'older gentleman' who works alone!
Here is an 'up close and personal' interview with Gus Pfister that was written 10+ years ago. Keep that in mind when you read about parts and service prices.
http://www.bayarea02.com/features/pfister-interview/index.html
« Last Edit: September 01, 2011, 22:49:51 by 66andBlue »
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

69280sl

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Re: Will a 280SL fuel injection pump work on 230SL?
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2011, 23:11:44 »
Gus, how much longer? What happened??


Alfred
I have my pump and car back now. Out of curiosity, after the fact,  I wrote to Gus Pfister at Pacific and asked how much and how long to rebuild a Pagoda pump. The answer was; $1500 - $1800 and 3-4 weeks.
Gus

68 280sl, signal red/ beige/black softtop. Car # 1084

Sirasila

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Re: Will a 280SL fuel injection pump work on 230SL?
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2011, 04:15:21 »
I suppose that having to ship the pump and getting it shipped back could be time consuming.  I didn't ship mine anywhere. Everything happens to be in the same city from start to finish and maybe that's why it's quicker.  The rebuilding stage took place also immediately after removal and the installation was right after the pump was finished.   All done by a few elderly gents.  Labor also costs less here in Thailand and so I paid a bit less.  Just a bit. 

mirkwood

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Re: Will a 280SL fuel injection pump work on 230SL?
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2011, 09:04:24 »
I'm in Brisbane,Australia  and I do a lot of MFI equipped Mercedes . Do you have an address for the Bankok Bosch place?

Sirasila

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Re: Will a 280SL fuel injection pump work on 230SL?
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2011, 15:29:05 »
The place is what used to be a main Bosch outlet here.  Most of the guys that used to work there are disbanded, but still reachable through phone appointments. They keep a fair amount of equipment and parts here and also serve the old Porsche community. They are quite old, in their 60s and 70s.  I can get you a number, but do you speak Thai?

mirkwood

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Re: Will a 280SL fuel injection pump work on 230SL?
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2011, 00:00:46 »
No,But my Cousin,Michael Nepia,  teaches a special School in Chang Mai  ;D

Cees Klumper

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Re: Will a 280SL fuel injection pump work on 230SL?
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2011, 06:27:16 »
Hopefully at least some of these older experts are transferring their knowledge to someone? For example I would hope that in Thailand there's enough of a market to keep someone in business. Otherwise we're going to find it more and more difficult to get our specialised work done.

Forunately for North America, guys like Joe A and Dan C are still in their early-to-mid-thirties ...
Cees Klumper
1969 Mercedes 280 SL automatic
1968 Ford Mustang 302 V8
1961 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Coupe 1600
1962 FIAT 1500S OSCA convertible
1972 Lancia Fulvia Coupe 1.3
1983 Porsche 944 2.5
1990 Ford Bronco II