Converting a California Coupe

[ammbuy]

I own a 1968 280SL California Coupe and plan to convert it back to incorporate the softtop.  Can anyone direct me to a good parts source?

[IXLR8]

Hi--

Fortunately, I have not had to do this.

You are looking at a major undertaking here.

The boot area for the soft top is missing on the CA coupe, replaced by the rear seat.

Some vendors will sell you a boot clip that must be welded in to accomodate the soft top. Expect to pay about $3 to 5 K for the body section. Then the welding in place and repaint.

The soift top boot cover and release mechanism and hinges will probably be another $1 K. The soft top boot cover will also need paint and upholstery.

Then the soift top itself.  Used frames run about $2.5 K. Then there is the fabric installation which might be up to $1.5 K, including the fabric.

Vehicle prices for a soft top car versus a CA coupe show about a $5 K ppremium over the CA coupe.

Even if you had the patience and the time, it might be better financially to sell the CA coupe and buy a soft top car.

In summary, this conversion is a BIG job.


Joe

[merrill]

Gernold at SL tech has what you need on his web site,  it looks like he is selling 1/2 of the rear of a car

not sure if it is still available...

link below

http://www.sltechw113.com/parts.html

Convertible top compartment complete for California Model Conversion

[Benz Dr.]

I have a parts car that I'm going to cut the hatch compartment out of and trash the rest so I'll have that piece available in a few weeks. It takes a couple of hours to cut one out of a car. It's no small job.

I found everything for a guy on the site here about two years ago. Soft top frame, soft top compartment, hatch cover, springs for deck lid, chrome caps, release cable and handle, box needed for wooden panels and a few other parts. Box was about 130 lbs. 

[graphic66]

I also have one, 67 250SL

[Raymond]

Ammbuy,
You said, "convert it back..." Understand that your car was never converted from anything.  It was built to be a 2+2 coupe in the factory.  I hope the photo of the clip Gernold is selling scared the hell out of you.  If you are going to cut a car into three pieces and replace the middle, my question is why?  If you so desperately want a drop top, sell it to someone who likes coupes and buy a roadster.  It's going to take a lot less time, cost a lot less, (don't forget an entire paint job), and you won't have to explain the major surgery when it's time to sell it on.

[mdsalemi]

Ammbuy,
You said, "convert it back..." Understand that your car was never converted from anything.  It was built to be a 2+2 coupe in the factory.  I hope the photo of the clip Gernold is selling scared the hell out of you.  If you are going to cut a car into three pieces and replace the middle, my question is why?  If you so desperately want a drop top, sell it to someone who likes coupes and buy a roadster.  It's going to take a lot less time, cost a lot less, (don't forget an entire paint job), and you won't have to explain the major surgery when it's time to sell it on.

Raymond, understand that there is a certain element out there--here--that isn't satisfied with what they have.  They want to make something new.  So, we have people that want to take a FI car and convert to carbs.  We have those with the OEM FI system, that want to make it new and electronic.  We have people that want to get rid of the old engine, and replace with new.  We have people that want to make an automatic a standard, and vice versa.  We have 4-speeds that want 5 speeds.  We have those wanting to add air conditioning, perhaps only to be outspoken by those wishing to remove it!  We have 5-speeds that want OTHER 5-speeds.  We have people who, in the face of overwhelming information from those who have been there, want to repair something instead of replace.  We have people who want to add turbo chargers.  Though this is quite benign by most standards, we have those with standard ignition wanting to go electronic, and those with electronic wanting to go back to standard.  The list of major changes is seemingly endless!  Some are particularly challenged by wanting to do something new and novel that hasn't been done before.  Remember, the car is between 40-50 years old, more or less, and if it has not been done before by now, there might be good reasons...

From my perspective, just maintaining what I have properly is difficult and expensive enough without the task, and added expense and uncertainty of major changes!

[Sirasila]

I can't imagine what the cost will be to convert and it's just pure torture to think about hacking up 2 cars to make one.  But that's just me.  From the perspective of someone who at one time had both the California coupe and the regular soft top.  I regret having sold the California.  I love the roadster, but the California coupe is something quite special.  For one thing, it's rarer.  How many were produced?  And, in regard to where I am, also how many of them were right hand drives?  I think the job you are planning will not only reduce its value, but you would end up with a replica of a roadster, not a real one.  Please reconsider.  I know people have different opinions and I respect your decision, but I know there are California coupe fans out there who may be looking for one and can't find one.  Buy another roadster to satisfy your need of a soft top and either keep the coupe or sell it to someone who appreciates it.
Just a thought.

[Benz Dr.]

This one of those few times where you would be adding value to the car and not taking anything away. No one would cut up a good car just to remove the hatch compartment because that should come from a real parts car. A car that rusty would be saved and the one place that rarely ever rusts is the soft top well.
5 - 6 K should get you everything you need and maybe 10 K would do the job. Depending on the overall condidtion of the car you should be able to get that back out of a sale. The coupes just don't sell as well.

 Look at the sale prices for 113's and decide if your car would be worh more with ther soft top or without it. It's not a recreation because it really is a 113 to begin with. 

[Raymond]

You're right Michael.  As somone who converted a 4-speed to a 5-speed, I understand the need to tinker in pursuit of drivability improvments.  And as somone who owns a Coupe, I understand there are those rare, glorious days when I do succumb to wishing I could drop the top.  (If it's that needful I take the BMW convertible)  However, the 5-speed is easily reversible and didn't affect 1/3 of the body.  It's Ammbuy's car.  Maybe he owns a body shop or is just a welding wizard and will do it himself.  I just think of all that effort, money, and time and wonder how much other great work could be done with those resources. 

You have a point too, Dan.  If both cars are basket cases, you have nothing to lose.  However, if the average cost for comparable cars is $5,000 less for a Coupe, and it costs a minimum of $2.5K for the clip, another $3K for carpet, soft top fabric, Tex or leather, etc., and you do it all with DIY labor, then you spend at least another $3k on an inexpensive paint job, then you're only in the hole for about $3.5K  Of course, you would have the satisfaction of having done it and no one would know there was anything special.

The German Pagoda web site has photos of an example of a conversion where they just cut the B-pillar and stick the top mechanism on.  It leaves the back seat and the top, when folded, rides like a cabrio.  I believe someone over there sells a kit.  I looked pretty closely at it a few years ago and the word "butcher" came to mind.  I prefer the Pagoda roof.

[ammbuy]

Thanks everyone for the comments.  Nothing like a little controversy!!

Admittedly, I was not fully aware of the effort involved, especially regarding having to 'chop' the car.  Is it not possible to have the roof storage area constructed onto the existing body? 

I would never want anyone to consider mine 'butchered', so I will certainly look long and hard at this before any cutting is done.

[mbzse]

..../...  Is it not possible to have the roof storage area constructed onto the existing body? I would never want anyone to consider mine 'butchered', so I will certainly look long and hard at this before any cutting is done

Yes it is perfectly possible. The soft top structure mounting points are actually already there in the body structure of the car.
I have done precisely this fitting of a soft top on one of my Pagodas. No permanent changes to the vehicle (all may be returned to "as delivered from M-B factory" w/o much effort)
Rear bench seat remains. A cloth cover, similar to 190SL, can be fitted over the folded soft top. Some pictures and info can be seen on Thomas Koellners Pagode info website:
http://www.pagode.info/56.htm
/Hans in Sweden

.

[Benz Dr.]

Let's look at the real world of car auctions for moment. If you take a car to auction and it gets bidded up to 35K that's what it's worth. If you get 12K that what it's worh and if you get 78K that's what that one is worth. Aside from someone who pays to much for a car, auctions a fairly good indicator of current values. Certainly 107 owners have been made aware of that recently because they're cars are not worth much right now.

If I saw a 113 Coupe I'd have an idea what it's worth baed upon condition. If I saw a regular 113 I'd have a good idea of that value as well. All of this is based upon condition and savey buyers will not pay more than what it's worth.

This conversion, done properly, leaves almost nothing to see that would tell anyone it was done. The vast majority of the work is all done in hidden places behind panels. There is, in fact, very little that has to be cut from the coupe car. The doner car is all hacked to pieces but as I said earlier this would be taken from a car that had nothing left in it. Once you cut out this last piece it's going to the crushers. You don't need the back clip from the car, just the soft top well.

If I saw a car that still had the bench seat in it with a soft top I would be inclided to pay a discount if I wanted it. In my mind it's a half finished project and if you think I'm being harsh try the auction crowd. You might as well left it as a coupe. Honestly, either leave it alone or do it right. 

[Shvegel]

Just to clarify you do not have to cut your car in half to do this conversion. It is just easier to chop the parts car that way and sell the part without having to drill or break all the spot welds that hold the top well in. The parts you need are all above the floor you break it at the seams and throw the rest away. As Dan says it's a couple of hours with a Sawzall to cut the section out and it's 2 days to pare it down to a usable part.

Not fun work grinding steel away from the parts you want but not difficult either. What I do in a case like this is grind away the metal from the side you want to throw away rather than drill the spot welds from the side you want to keep.

[Benz Dr.]

I agree. I haven't ever installed one but I've cut a few out and it a lot of work but worth it in the end.
You have the right idea removing the metal from the side that you don't need.

[leppee]

hi
 i did my convert my self and  it was a 2 day job,it was pretty straight on job and easy but lot of grinding and welding
the result is nice you cant see the diffrent
Pekka