Pagoda 5.6L manual trans project

[Flyair]

Here in Poland we use flashing lights while driving to say "thank you" when somebody lets you get in say on a busy road or in a traffic jam etc, while to indicate on Highway that you want to overpass… you just leave your left blinker on… some dummies are quite resistant to this and are happy blocking the traffic by their slow-motion like driving on the left line…  Kind of universal disease I guess    

[GGR]

In France flashing in-coming traffic is to warn them of a danger, such as an accident or police.  I've also seen it used here in the US to warn about police. In Liberia where I worked during the civil war, flashing incoming traffic was to ask if the road was safe ahead.  Depending on the way the in-coming trafic was flashing back it meant the road was safe, or on the contrary there was a danger (usually an ambush).

[dseretakis]

Here in Poland we use flashing lights while driving to say "thank you" when somebody lets you get in say on a busy road or in a traffic jam etc, while to indicate on Highway that you want to overpass… you just leave your left blinker on… some dummies are quite resistant to this and are happy blocking the traffic by their slow-motion like driving on the left line…  Kind of universal disease I guess    

The left blinker thing is also done in Greece. The traffic accident fatality rate in Greece is one of the highest in the world. Too many idiot macho drivers. If I'm driving my old MB there in the left lane at a reasonable speed and some clown in a fiat thinks  going to move over for him so he can drive at three times the speed limit so he can kill some more people then he's mistaken.

[GGR]

As noted in a new thread in the body section, I showed the car to a guy who works on body and paint from home and has good reputation in the area. He works mainly on US cars but I guess he can also do a good job on the Pagoda, He really liked the car and looked motivated. I still need to see some of his work in person to take my final decision.

I hope I will have the car painted by spring so that I can participate to the Pagoda 50th anniversary gatherings. I also have friends coming from Europe in July and we will be visiting Colorado and the Rocky Mountains. I want to use the Pagoda for that trip, as I'm sure this will be a dream car in a dream environment.

Today I spent some time tuning the engine: ignition advance and mixture. I also realized the gas pedal was not opening the butterfly fully so I adjusted it illico presto. That was a bad move because I had planned doing a few other things on the car but I couldn't help but drive the car all afternoon instead.  I don't want to seem to be ranting but that car is simply addictive. I now start worrying for my mental health !

[Flyair]

Dimitri

stupid driving style, as if there was no tomorrow can be found in many countries, where the James Bond title Dye and let dye" applies quite accurately. Maybe in Greece this is enhanced by the otherwise ancient traditional inclination towards classical tragedy where climax mimes and catharsis are part of

[dseretakis]

Dimitri

stupid driving style, as if there was no tomorrow can be found in many countries, where the James Bond title Dye and let dye" applies quite accurately. Maybe in Greece this is enhanced by the otherwise ancient traditional inclination towards classical tragedy where climax mimes and catharsis are part of

I don't know... The Greeks are such awful drivers. So many horrific accidents. Every weekend dozens die - it's the norm there. The  worst is when these idiots try to overtake people on single lane mountain roads without barriers. What are they thinking!

[GGR]

Yesterday I took the Pagoda for a drive with the intention of measuring mpg. I drove 70% on the Interstate in 5th at 70mph, 20% on smaller roads at 50 mph and 10% in town. The car used 4.58 gallons for a 125 miles trip, so it returned 27.3 mpg (8.9 l/100km). I think I will have to do this again in different conditions because I'm having a hard time believing it. 5th is .81 and rear end is 2.82:1, so it is equivalent to a 2.24:1 rear end with a 1:1 top gear, like on the US 500SELs (w126). Anyway, this is way better mileage than I was expecting. I think it's even better than a stock Pagoda. My trip to Colorado this summer is going to cost me less than I was expecting !

[dseretakis]

That is excellent news! Amazing how you can get better mpg than a stock pagoda which will barely give 20 mpg under the best conditions.

[pagoden]

This project is so well conceived and executed that I hate feeling skeptical, but.......Wow, that's a lot of mileage from a lot of engine.   ..........   And then, on reflection, this enormous productivity issuing from a small urban back yard in a former malarial swamp with not even a garage on it is a very great lot also, sooo ..... mucho kudos, and my respects to the chef (and chief bottlewasher).       

[GGR]

Thanks !  True that I drove as if I had an egg under the gas pedal but still, it's hard to believe. I even wondered if the pump at the station was working well. May be it filled more gas than it measured. I also wonder if the difference of temperature played a role. I filled the tank early morning before going and it was very cold. Then temperatures went up during the day so I guess the gas expanded in the tank leaving less space for refill. I will have to measure mpg again on a longer trip.

I also wonder if the engine runs too lean? I looked at the spark plugs the other day and they were quite white, so I increased richness by 1/8 turn. This 5.6 motor is equipped with early euro camshafts, K-jet system and ignition. Theory says the cone of the K-jet air intake is shaped specifically for each engine (though by comparing part numbers on EPC this cone is the same as on early 380s, so it is not that specific). These K-jet are known to be too rich at lower revs, and leaner at higher rev. It looks to me it's the contrary in my case, which would explain this Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde behavior: lean at lower rev and light throttle for a very civilized and economical drive, and rich at higher rev and greater throttle opening for maximum power. If that's the case, I'm not complaining, though the only way to know for sure is to put the car on a dyno and measure Air/Fuel ratio in different conditions.

[GGR]

Today I did the same circuit in the same conditions, but in the midle of the afternoon to avoid temperature differences. I also refilled at a different pump in case the one of last week was incorrect. Result is 4.4 gallons for 125 miles. That is 28.4 mpg or 8.3l/100km. I guess I could reach 30 mpg on a flat course and stabilzed speed. That's great !

[Flyair]

GGR,

Come on… any pretext is good to ride a Pagoda, especially with such an engine. Confess it

Fortunately the list of items to be potential candidates for road check is long enough to give you (and us reading your posts) great enjoyment and satisfaction . Just don't forget to stick to English. Voilà. 


 

[GGR]

GGR,

Come on… any pretext is good to ride a Pagoda, especially with such an engine. Confess it

 

Well, I do confess it ! As I wrote in an earlier post, this car is absolutely addictive. And I can get a fix for even cheaper than I thought !

That particular tour is my junkyarding tour. Regularly I visit three Crazy Ray's junkyards (Mt Airy, Baltimore SE and Jessup) to see if they got anything intersting in. My wife calls it my treasure hunting. This is how I was able to gather all kind of parts for my projects at a reasonable price, though ''ïnteresting" cars start being less and less. When I started that circuit four years ago there were still regularly some w108 and w111 cars coming in, but it's now drying up. I think I was lucky to do my projects (and fill my garage with all kind of treasures ! Ask Dimitri !) early enough. They still get some good stuff in from time to time, but it doesn't stay long ! I told the story of that 633 BMW Getrag 265 transmission with cable pick-up in an earlier post. I was lucky to get it, but another day I "lost" some r107 500SL tri-Y exhaust manifolds.

Dimitri is also doing the same when he comes down to DC, as cars are less rusted here than where he lives. This is how he keeps his die hard w123 going. He cuts some body and chassis parts out of solid w123s here and welds them back on his car to replace the bits and pieces that have fallen on the road ! BTW Dimitri, you drive that diesel because of high mpg. Just stuff a 5.6L in your Pagoda and save in style !

[GGR]

Update

One week ago I (stupidely) broke the balancing pipe While driving off the side of the road which was at a steep angle and the tarmac was quite thick. So last week end I took it to a friend who has a lift and he welded the balancing pipe back into place. I also adjusted the transmission alignment as with time the motor and trans mounts are sinking into place and the alignement had to be re-adjusted to make sure the flex disk works properly. It was nice seeing the car from undeneath again : it starts having road grim, like any functional car, which is comforting given all the transforamtions. It means the project is viable.

I also had the rev counter working. I put the internals of a W126 V8 one inside the Pagoda counter. looks good and works well.

I checked my spark plugs and they were looking very whitish. So I incresed richness by 1/8 of turn. The car responds better than before at lower and mid rev. I don't know yet what will be the effect on MPG.

I took the car to a Friend who just bought an E55 AMG with 470 hp on it. We tried both cars one after the other and that E55 is insane.

[dseretakis]

Why don't you put an E55 in your coupe? Is that an M119 engine?

[GGR]

It's an M113 with a compressor on top. Smaller than the M117 actually. I think this is the engine Mechatronik is using for their conversions.

[dseretakis]

So are you going to Mechatroniksize your coupe?

[GGR]

Well, the Coupe is fine the way it is for now. Though an M120 would be tempting.

[pmorgan]

Congrats on your progress with the Getrag manual transmission/5.6L upgrade project.  I've continued to advance my 5.6L engine upgrade project in my '68 Pagoda this winter and wanted you to know it is now running. I don't know if you got the video I emailed to you.  

Should be able to test drive it on the road soon now that the weather up here in the north is regularly above freezing.  I noticed you had posted the photo of my 6.3 rear axle with anti-dive in your post #13.   Soon I should know how well it works!

[Jim Rosenthal]

I read this entire thread- wow. I am very impressed and would love to see the car. I am in Annapolis. I have heard about Hatch's 3.5 cars- I think this would outdo them as the alloy block engine is lighter and makes more power. Did you see the 111 convertible that was for sale at Fantasy Junction a few months back? It is a low-grille 6-cylinder car that they did a 5.6 driveline transplant into; I think they used the 6.3 rear axle set as well. Well done, but I think your car is faster...

[Jim Rosenthal]

Courtesy of Gael's kind invitation, I got to spend the day with fellow Mercedes enthusiasts at Chuck Taylor's place. And I was able to drive Gae's 280SL, which is really beyond description; it's perfectly civilized until you get into it, and then you feel the rush of power. It's amazing. The fact that it is a manual shift is even better, because you can wind it up in any gear you choose. I was not familiar enough with either the car or the roads to really drive it, but in the passenger's seat with Gael driving, the car really shows its personality- a Mercedes muscle car for certain, but very tractable at low speeds and throttle openings.

One could drive this car for days and never know what it is capable of, until you decide to open it up and then watch out!  The feeling of torque rocketing the car forward would be addictive to say the least. If I had to compare it to any of my own cars, I'd say it is a cross between my Cobra and my 500E, if you can imagine that.

Thanks to all especially Gael, and hope to see you all again soon!

[stickandrudderman]

I'd love to do this but I don't have the spare time, although if anyone wants one for themselves I'm happy to be commissioned!

[GGR]

Wow ! Thanks Jim ! I'm sure you will have the opportunity to drive the car again on longer distances to get better familiarized with it. It was a pleasure to meet and talk with you. I wish you the best with your dogleg getrag project and I hope I will be able to see your Citroen DS one of these days !

[dseretakis]

I couldn't agree more, Jim. Gael has created a civilized monster. This is something that Mercedes should have been churning out of the factory during the later years of pagoda production. Having driven his car I can say that it was flawlessly executed!

Courtesy of Gael's kind invitation, I got to spend the day with fellow Mercedes enthusiasts at Chuck Taylor's place. And I was able to drive Gae's 280SL, which is really beyond description; it's perfectly civilized until you get into it, and then you feel the rush of power. It's amazing. The fact that it is a manual shift is even better, because you can wind it up in any gear you choose. I was not familiar enough with either the car or the roads to really drive it, but in the passenger's seat with Gael driving, the car really shows its personality- a Mercedes muscle car for certain, but very tractable at low speeds and throttle openings.

One could drive this car for days and never know what it is capable of, until you decide to open it up and then watch out!  The feeling of torque rocketing the car forward would be addictive to say the least. If I had to compare it to any of my own cars, I'd say it is a cross between my Cobra and my 500E, if you can imagine that.

Thanks to all especially Gael, and hope to see you all again soon!

[GGR]

Thanks Dimitri. The car is on the road thanks to you and your welding skills which allowed us to fabricate all the specific parts over a week end. Notably that gear linkage, which is nice and firm. Everybody likes the way it feels while shifting and is a great part of the pleasure when driving this car. The downpipes are also quite a work of art.