Pagoda 5.6L manual trans project

[garymand]

Thanks GGR, here is a pic from the back and front. These are 225/50 16.  16X7 rims front and back.

[GGR]

Thanks for posting the pictures. They don't look that much wider than the 215. What size are they exactly? How wide are your rims?

[450sl]

Great Job, well Done  !!

What do you mean by beefing up the getrag ? did you modify the transmission itself?

Mark

[GGR]

Thanks!

This transmission was part of a set up I got together with the bell-housing. It was developed back in the day for the 500 motor M117 by AMG. Part of it was to replace the transmission bearings with stronger ones to deal with the additional torque. I did not open this transmission as it was working well, so I do not know about all the details. I did a similar exercise with a different transmission that I modified for my 5.0L W111 Coupe. I replaced ball bearings by roller bearings and added a keyway for the pinion of 5th.   

[pmorgan]

Yesterday I took my Pagoda to a dyno. Results were 230 rear wheel hp DIN at about 4750 rpm and 285 ft.lb of torque at about 3800 rpm.

Gael:
I told you I would post my dyno results here for my 280SL/5.6 after testing was done.  That was completed in mid-June '14 and max rear wheel HP was 180 and max torque was 250 ft-lb.  My drivetrain is different from yours with stock CR and camshafts in engine, automatic transmission, and full rear axle from 300SEL/6.3 car.

[GGR]

Here are a few more pictures taken during the track day. The second picture is on the long straight, right before or after shifting from 3rd to 4th (I seem to have the hand on the shifter), speed must be around 100 mph as this is about the speed up to which 3rd takes the car:

[dseretakis]

Those are great shots!  100mph in third, wow! I wonder what the top speed could be. Please don't find out!!

[GGR]

Thanks!

Well, I surely would like to know the max speed too! It reached 180mph on the dyno in 5th. However this is not real life. I made some calculations taking into account a number of parameters and I think the car should be able to reach a good 160mph. I won't know for sure until I try it for real. I need to find a way to do it as safely as possible, without braking the law, and without my wife knowing!  

Below is a table calculating all speeds and rpm depending on rear end and trans gear ratios and tire size:

[dseretakis]

And without killing yourself!

[Peter van Es]

Cool shots and great car! 

[stickandrudderman]

Me likely lots!

[GGR]

Thanks!

100mph in third, wow!

In fact, by looking at the table, max speed in third is more like 110. I got confused with my Coupe which has a 3.27 rear end with a max speed of 100mph in third @ around 6500rpm. It also has a 0.87:1 5th gear instead of 0.81:1. That engine is a 5.0L with AMG camshafts and EFI. Being shorter stroke it is very rev. happy.

[GGR]

It's getting cold around here so I thought I would go and check the coolant protection on the Pagoda with that bubble thing they sell at Autozone. The coolant needs to be at operating temperature so I went for a drive. I hadn't really driven the car in a while, apart for going at Tom's gathering at the beginning of the month, but that was all city traffic.

This time I took the car on the open road, and for some reason, everybody was driving slowly. While I was loosing patience, I looked around and the whole traffic was moving slower than usual, as if in some kind of slow motion movie. But a quick look at the speedo had me realize I was the one moving fast!

It had me think about the qualities of this car: all components - engine, brakes, suspension etc. are somehow oversized so their limits are way beyond what they used to be. And because they all work together homogenously in an effortless manner, one does not really realize at what speed the car is moving. That realization made me happy for the day, though I have to watch out for cameras!

The other thing I realized is that I didn't turn wrenches on that car since quite a while. It does not need it. There are a few things I'm thinking of doing, but these would be improvements, not issues in need of being addressed. Maintenance is also quite simplified compared to an original Pagoda: No more ignition breaker points and valve adjustment to deal with, and oil change interval is also now quite longer. All this makes me quite happy, but it's also kind of boring!

So I guess I will need to look into these little improvements I want to make so as not to loose interest: bigger sway bar (I got one from a W108 4.5 already, I now need to install it), Koni adjustable shocks (I already scored a pair of rear ones on eBay), I also want to re-fit the thick metal plate under the transmission. I currently have the valance made by Mark Turnbull for the Getrag, but I think the original plate plays a role in the car's rigidity. Not that I feel there is anything wrong for now, but I thought putting the thicker plate back would help save the shell from doing all the work. I need to find a way to get the Getrag to attach to it, may be by modifying Mark's bracket. So the trans would still be held by the mounts on both sides with the bracket, and then the modified bracket itself would be bolted onto the plate. I'll see.     

Oh, and the coolant is fine up to -10 Fahrenheit, so I should be good for the winter.

[GGR]

The weather has been nice so I went to Katie's Cars and Coffee in Great Falls with the Pagoda this morning. Turn out was nice despite the cold and there were a number of interesting cars. Group Member Pagoden was there too with his nice white Pagoda and the top off. Quite courageous given the cold!

While there, and before heading back, I decided to fiddle with the throttle actuation. The system is such that the throttle does not open in a linear manner relative to pedal travel: the first part of the pedal travel opens the throttle very slowly, and then opening is much faster. This is to keep better control in town, and it is giving my car a bit of a Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde personality: press gently on the pedal, and the car behaves very smoothly; press more and hell starts breaking loose!  However, I felt Dr Jekyll had too much of the pedal travel, especially compared to my Coupe which is really reacting immediately. So I adjusted the rods in such a manner that I get on the "fast opening mode" much quicker. This had a great effect as now throttle response is much crispier. I now have a much rejuvenated and dynamic Dr. Jekyll, and it turns into Mr Hyde also much faster! Before, I really had to press on the gas pedal to get the car moving. Now it is zipping as soon as I press on it, and the bulk of the power is now felt from the middle of the pedal travel rather than towards the end of it. I like it! I think I found the right balance between smooth control and throttle response, as going further would really have the car jump as soon as the pedal is pressed on. It's nice to have such an adjustment, it allows to change the balance between the car's two sides of its personality very easily!   

[GGR]

I was contacted recently by Gary Anderson, Editor-in-Chief of "The Star" which is the Official Magazine of the Mercedes-Benz Club of America (MBCA):  http://www.mbca.org/star/january-february-2015

He thought my two trips across the US, one with my Coupe, and the other one with my Pagoda, could make for a nice article. So I sent him a draft which he nicely edited and the article was published in the January-February issue of the Magazine, with pictures from both my trips. I think MBCA members are currently getting their copy in their mailbox. They can also read the Magazine online by following the link I posted above. For the others, attached below is a draft copy of the article.

[jeblack123]

Very well done, Gael!

James

[Garry]

Nice article Gael. I enjoyed it.

Reminded me of several trips I have done across USA in both a Pagoda (2009) and an E Type Roadster in 2011 to attend PUB

Garry

[GGR]

Thanks!

Garry, do you have pictures of both your trips? Where did you drive the Pagoda from and to?

 

[Garry]

Bit off subject but:
On both occasions I was returning from Joe Alexanders (PUB) in Blacklick OH and in the Pagoda case another CA member (the owner) and I drove it back to just north of San Francisco before flying home.  In the Jag case it was my own E Type that I had purchased in Georgia in LHD and then used at PUB and then Tom Collit and I drove it back to LA where Tom did a LH to RH conversion on it for me before I shipped it home.

I only have a few photos with me at the moment of the Jag

On both occasions I had a great time and enjoyed the ride.

Garry

[GGR]

Doing the same kind of trip in a Pagoda and then in an E type must have given you a very good occasion to compare both cars. If not done already, you should make a write up on this experience as both cars were competitors back in the day. This could be a good article for Pagoda World, with pictures and anecdotes on both your trips.

I have added more pictures of my trips in this thread: http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=21718.0 

[GGR]

Early this morning I drove the Pagoda in the cold across a countryside covered in snow up to the inspection center. The car failed the inspection because CO at idle was right above the threshold. I leaned the mixture right around the corner and went straight back in. Passed with flying colors with .25 CO at idle. I didn't see the faces of the guys as owners are not allowed in the workshop, but they must have been like Huh?!  

inspection time is the time for me to remember that January 1st of 2011 when I became the proud owner of this Pagoda at a local auction. I drove it home in the cold and across a countryside covered in snow, just like this morning!

[dseretakis]

I find it amazing that some states still torture the owners of such old cars with emissions testing. These cars constitute a minuscule fraction of cars on the road today. On top of that, they are driven much less frequently.

[GGR]

I think they go by what the rules were when the car was manufactured. I don't have to pass emissions on my '62 Coupe of my wife's '67 fintail. My Pagoda is a '71. Had it been older it would also have been exempt.

Dimitri, do you remember when we drove back the Pagoda from the local auctions place? It was freezing cold!

[RonB]

Sway Bar - what diameter is the sway bar from the W108 4.5?

Does it bolt right up as replacement for the regular w113 bar?

Great job - nice.

[dseretakis]

Dimitri, do you remember when we drove back the Pagoda from the local auctions place? It was freezing cold!

I remember that day. You were so excited! Like a little boy on Christmas!