Internet Explorer 8.0

[Peter van Es]

Michael Salemi alerted me to the fact that our web-site behaves oddly when using Internet Explorer version 8, when making posts. When the post is longer than the editor box, the editor keeps scrolling up, making it difficult to add text to the end of the message.

This is an annoying feature peculiar only to Internet Explorer, and not encountered by those using Chrome, FireFox or Safari. Michael reports it could be tackled by switching on the Compatibility mode (Tools / Compatibility View).

I have today made a number of changes to the layout of our site, so that it should be more compatible in all browsers and should not require Compatibility mode. If you do encounter any problems, please let me know.

Peter

(posted with IE8, regular mode)

[thelews]

I've noticed that for quite some time now, but, didn't want to say anything.

[mdsalemi]

Just so we are clear here--

IE, like it or not, has 55.77% penetration of the browser market.  Therefore ALL THE OTHERS--Chrome, Firefox, Safari, etc. COMBINED, are a minority.  I'm of the school of thought that you design for the majority...but that's just my opinion.  In any case the issue was not with IE 7.

http://www.statowl.com/web_browser_market_share.php

Every browser, for the most part, performs the same function--they are simply a window to something else--the web page.  They all behave a bit different though, and programmers do nobody any good by complicating web page design so things don't work right unless you have all these complex browser plug ins and add ons.  There are a couple of simple add-ons I have for IE that simply didn't work with other browsers, and that's why I stuck with the majority.  The others didn't look right on my computer, but that's just me as well.

and this is a test
and this is a test

And Peter fixed the problem.  Running in IE8 standard mode...Thanks Peter! 

[gugel]

[Browsers] all behave a bit different though, and programmers do nobody any good by complicating web page design so things don't work right unless you have all these complex browser plug ins and add ons.  

Speaking as a programmer, I'd just like to say that it's not the programmers who are at fault here, but Microsoft.  Countless features -- even basic ones -- typically work on Chrome, Opera, Firefox, Safari, etc., but not on IE Explorer without some special tweak.  Microsoft apparently finds it in their interest not to follow standards, even on basic features. 

Sorry for the rant -- just wanted to get it off my chest.

Chris Earnest

[ghenne]

+1

Microsoft is the only browser vendor who doesn't care about standards. They implement new features years after everyone else.

Speaking as a programmer, I'd just like to say that it's not the programmers who are at fault here, but Microsoft.  Countless features -- even basic ones -- typically work on Chrome, Opera, Firefox, Safari, etc., but not on IE Explorer without some special tweak.  Microsoft apparently finds it in their interest not to follow standards, even on basic features. 

Sorry for the rant -- just wanted to get it off my chest.

Chris Earnest

[Peter van Es]

Needless to say I didn't spot it until Mike alerted me to it as I haven't touched IE for years now...

Interestingly, I'm copying some content here from Google Analytics for our site... it clearly demonstrates that on www.sl113.org IE is less than 50% of the share (even though 70% of our users still use Windows). It has been dropping and continues to drop amongst our users: over 17% of our users use OS X, and 9% use IOS5 (iPhone, iPad).

So, if anyone spots something weird, do mail me. I'll look into it.

[lurtch]

Hi Peter, 

I suppose you also realize that you have hereby revealed your private email address up in that header bar?   

Regards, Larry in CA



P.S. I am planning a small Pagoda gathering for next August. Are there any sl113.org guidelines for these things?  Alfred is also helping me with this.

[Peter van Es]

Thanks for the warning.

Oh, and deal with Alfred... he knows what the policy for events and events support is!

Peter

[mdsalemi]

it clearly demonstrates that on www.sl113.org IE is less than 50% of the share (even though 70% of our users still use Windows).

Yes, IE is is less than 50%.  BUT, didn't you notice that at this "less than 50%", it still has TWICE as many users on our site, as the next in line, Safari?  All the rest, then, make up the difference.

My point is, all the programmer/computer guy venom against Microsoft aside, that they still have a majority share, and things should be designed to work for that.  If you design a webpage for optimized viewing and behavior on Chrome, for example, you are catering to 10% of the population.  I tried Firefox and Chrome on the PC here and they did not behave properly, and my favorite websites, such as this, didn't display as nice and were more difficult to read.

...and while Apple is the good guy and Microsoft is the bad guy, there are two sides to every story.  I installed Quicktime once, and during the installation process it took control of every thing it could, destroying long-standing relationships on my computer between certain files and certain programs--and the result was a mediocre movie player.  I installed iTunes once as well, and the same thing happened, taking control of every music file it could find, and corrupting long-standing relationships set up with other audio programs on my computer, and also with my accounting files which by conincidence share a common file name extension with certain Apple files.  These were highly invasive installs.  Other programs from other vendors do the same kind of thing, too, of course--but to just cast aspersions on Microsoft in favor of Apple doesn't cover each case and every story.

When I display a web page, and the "real content" of the webpage is 20%, and 80% is dynamic junk/ads/popups/whatever that bogs down the computer's video card with complex screen redraws that change every time you drill around a site, I'd suggest the programmers are at least partially responsible for that.  Site owners and managers are also responsible, for demanding that of programmers.

In our site here, it really, truly is one of the nicest, best behaving websites that I ever visit.  For sure, there are some things that could be better, but it is clean, and well designed. This one little issue I had (others had noticed) was so small that most didn't bother to mention it.  I found a work-around and left it at that.  Peter fixed it anyway.