FYI--ZF 5 speed trans.

[DaveB]

Here's the ZF 'type numbers' from the 2005 Pagoda World document. I don't know where this number would be found on the trans, if it's there.

[George Des]

Well this helps. I got under my car today and after some effort was able to read some numbers on the box. There is an 057 stamped on the data plate so accoding to the article in DaveBs post above, the box was made for either a 230 or 250. The other number stamped on the plate is 1675. Not sure what that number is--could be the serial number?

George

[rocketman1]

DaveB thanks for the ZF number "code" sheet. I showed the trans. picture you posted to a friend of mine that has been rebuilding thousands of transmissions over the last 35 years at his shop. I'm going to pull it myself this weekend and take it to him. He said he'll disasemble it and lay it out in sequence, piece by piece, for us to see. I'm going to take before, during and after pictures. He wasn't that concerned about finding seals or bearings. In any event, I got to know what that thing looks like in great detail.
Hopefully ZF will come through with there promise of providing service "kits".
BenzDR, have you or someone you know done this?
Regards
rocketman1

[DaveB]

Sounds like a good man to know. It would be great to see the work photographed in sequence if you can be there while he does it. It would also be a great addition to this site's technical manual.
Careful with that bellhousing when it comes out! That would be an expensive replacement. Also, when you reinstall, don't overtighten the speedometer cable pinchbolt.

[Garry]

Some internal photos    They were sold on Ebay a couple of years ago for $1000 I think for the lot

[Garry]

Some more photos of the ZF internals
My understanding from ZF is that the spares will not be available until at least 2012 after the production run of Gear boxes and spares in complete.
Hope you dont need Gears. They will be the single biggest expense to replace.

[George Des]

Great photos of all the components. The Maserati manual also has many photos as well. I haven't looked at the manual in a while, but I seem to recall it also has an extensive listing of all the parts with a complete diagram numbering each one. Many of the parts such as bearings, seals, nuts, bolts, studs, washers, etc are commonly available items. For example the two tapered roller bearings on the main shaft, as I pointed out earlier, are Timkens used on boat trailer wheels. The big expense on spares will be as Garry points out on any gears, synchros, castings or shafts that would need to be replaced, but I've got to think that with all the modern manufacturing advances made over the past 40 years that these have got to be a lot cheaper to produce now provided they do use those modern processes.

George

[DaveB]

Interesting thanks. That layshaft gear looks a little chewed. I think I see the Timken tapered roller bearing, also on the layshaft. Indeed, looks just like those on my boat trailer.

[rocketman1]

Thanks Guys, Awsome photos and info!
 47 years after the car was built Without (data card proof) the ZF-5 transmission. Here's what's there.
Looking at it on the the car carrier yesturday here's what I saw.
1. There's no Question that it's a ZF trans. with the Mercedes parts numbers. not a Maserati trans.
2. Everything lines up, (ie:servo fluid line to frame,electric cable length with male/female connectors mounted, on frame in what appears to be the correct the location.
3. Transmission support bracket appears OEM.
4. This is interesting, the tunnel for the drive shafts, carrier bearing and the flex discs, GET this, Looks NO different than the, euro 1982 500SL that I bought new.
Someone had mention earlier that they thought possibly, MB dealers could of had access to the ZF-5's back in the 60's as add on's for there customers. This sure looks like that scenario!
You All be Good
rocketman1
PS: What the heck does that 2 prong electric cable do or control anyway?

[George Des]

That would be the connection for the back-up or reverse light switch.

George

[rocketman1]

It's out and in the back of my wifes SUV.
It's a ZFS 5-20  Getr.Nr.  690
Stuckl. Nr. 1025 0000 33
It took me 6 hrs. to pull, then a friend helped me "wiggle" it away from the clutch plate.
I'll send photos of the ZF tag. For being 47 yrs. old, it's almost in perfect condition.
Thanks for all your help.
rocketman1

[DaveB]

Rocketman,
Would it be possible, while you have the transmission out, to post some detailed photos and measurements of the ancillary 5-speed specific parts - shifter linkages, transmission mount and front tailshaft?

[rocketman1]

DaveB. Yes for sure. I'll do all the measurments Metric.
Pictures to follow, I'm learning slowly how to send them to you guys.
FYI, The transmission with bell housing is a little bastard, I expected a much larger part!
rocketman1

[rocketman1]

ZF factory Tag on transmission photo
Butt end of transmission photo

[rocketman1]

forgot tag picture, sorry

[DaveB]

I'll do all the measurements Metric.  Naturally 

That would be very helpful.

I have never seen an S5-20 transmission in the flesh but I gathered they must be relatively small because they only weigh 27kg and they only take 1.1L of oil. I think they are longer than the G72 transmission though.

[Benz Dr.]

Anyone know what the S5 - 20 means? I think I can figure out the S5 but I'm not sure about the - 20.

 I'm guessing that the S5 stands for synrocnized five speed. Actually, all 6 gears which includes reverse are synrocnized so that's why I'm guessing. I'm sure they're only referring to the five forward gears in this case.

[mbzse]

Anyone know what the S5 - 20 means? I think I can figure out the S5 but I'm not sure about the - 20

-20 stands for that the box is suited for 200Nm max torque

I'm guessing that the S5 stands for synrocnized five speed.

Right

/Hans in Sweden

.

[mbzse]

.../... they would make "Kits" available for the OEM ZF - 5's (ie:seals,bearings,clutch plates,etc.) That would be a God send! It said it takes them 3 days to respond to e-mails.
Is there anybody in our group that lives in Germany, close to this plant, were they can stop in and say, "HI, how's the ZFS 5-20 program coming along"

I have now done so. See thread http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=15652.0
/Hans in Sweden

.

[mbzse]

forgot tag picture, sorry

You had some speculation as to the originality of the box in your W113. The ID plate in the photo attached shows the box that you now have was produced for and factory installed into a 300SE Mercedes. (See table in reply #75 DaveB).   These beasts are/were certainly rare, i.e, made in much limited numbers.
/Hans in Sweden

.

[Garry]

Hans,

That combination in a 300 SE would have to be even rarer than a Pagoda. Cannot imagine too many US delivered cars would have had that.

The modification to Rocketmans car may not be that old as it would certainly be worth while doing it correctly in this day and age.

[rocketman1]

Hans/Garry, I finally got a reply from the ZF factory this week.
Your right, they said it was for a DB 300 SE.
It was the 157th one built for some lucky 300 SE owner.
The car arrived in Texas in 1977, thats when I bought it, and that box was in the car. I was 24 yrs old and had no idea what I had.
The other ID plate shows that the car was sent to a MB dealer in Munich Nov. 1964. The swap out had to of been done in Germany.
Either the orig. owner of the 300 SE got tired of shifting, or the car got hit by a freight train, and they sold the trans.
rocketman1

[Garry]

Probably a write off of the 300 SE.  but it is good that who ever did the job has done every thing correctly. Maybe it was a dealer that told the owner about the written off car and gear box.

You indicated that you are overhauling the gear box,  was there something wrong with it or are you just planning seals and bearings, the non ZF gear that is available?

[rocketman1]

Garry, In 1982 the car ran fine, that's when the car was moved & stored in a barn in Texas for the past 29 years!! I just got it back in sept. of this year. That being said, I'm planning to just replace seals and as many bearings as I can get. More precaution service than anyting else.
Best Regards
rocketman1

[Iconic]

...... the car was moved & stored in a barn in Texas for the past 29 years!! I just got it back in sept. of this year. ......

Rocketman1,
I don't believe we've heard the whole story or seen any pictures.
If you care to tell us, there are many that will enjoy hearing it.
Any story that includes "29 years in a barn" must be interesting. And it was yours before it went in the barn?

If you tell us, please do so in another thread so this hijack (sorry about that) doesn't continue.