Matching Number SL's ...How many out there.....????

[gnicolas_63]

Hi all, I'm curently restoring a 1971 280 SL, I realized today that the engine # start with 130980 xx-xxxxxx, which according to the tech manual of this forum matches the 280 SE sedan (W108 E28 and the W111 E28 Coupe / Cabriolet. This is my second SL experience, The first being a 1964 230SL, with an engine from a 250. So I started wandering about SL's with matching numbers, as they left the factory with oriiginal engine/drivetrains...how many of these SL's are left?..I adore these cars, I regret selling my 64, so I'm back, having taking a detour for a few years with a Jaguar XK8...great car...but lacking in character of the SL. Please enlighten me.....

[gimp]

The 68 I have still has the original engine and drivetrain with 167000 km on it.

[thelews]

My '67 250 SL is all matching

[Atazman]

My 67 250 SL is all matching, too.  Well..... that may be a lie; I bought a new MB shortblock a few years ago but I retained the original engine matching tag.  Do I qualify as still matching?

[Iconic]

My 1970 280 SL is all matching.
All numbers on the data card as well as all body panels that are supposed to have numbers have the correct numbers.
But, then you can get into discussions about the different components. Does the master cylinder have the correct date code (if there is one). Or does the jack have the correct date code .... but, maybe you aren't asking about that.

Atazman, IMHO, like anything else, there will be 100% matching cars and there will be varying degrees of matching: this is where you get statements like: "my car is a matching numbers car except for xxx".

[Larry & Norma]

I have a 280SE engine also.

[Dutch Pagode]

Mine is matching too!! 

Henri

[Benz Dr.]

Nothing on my car matches and I don't care. Everything is correct parts from the time period with nothing newer than the last SL made in 71.

  How much more would you be willing to pay for a numbers matching SL?

   Speak up a bit I can't hear you........

 Oh! You like the idea of matching numbers but wouldn't pay more for one?
 
When people start paying a premium for these things then it will start to be something to consider. Until then, it's one of those '' makes me feel good '' sort of things that adds no real value to the car.

[49er]

"my car is a matching numbers car except for xxx".

My car is a matching numbers car except for.....the engine block which was replaced by Mercedes at 23K miles under warranty due to a "manufacturing defect" that caused excessive oil consumption. I have to agree, the car is a sum of it's parts, as long as they all fit and the car looks and runs like a Pagoda, dosen't make much difference if all the parts numbers are the same.

John

[johnnymack]

my 1970 280SL in process of rebuilding engine (matching numbers ) all original except Exterior color .  I got to believe that in the long run its worth it !

[Iconic]

 How much more would you be willing to pay for a numbers matching SL?
   Speak up a bit I can't hear you........
 Oh! You like the idea of matching numbers but wouldn't pay more for one?
When people start paying a premium for these things then it will start to be something to consider. Until then, it's one of those '' makes me feel good '' sort of things that adds no real value to the car.

Hey Dan,
I know no 2 cars are identical, but if there were two cars sitting in front of you, and they were identical in every way, including price, but one was numbers matching and one wasn't ....
which would you choose?
Speak up a bit, I can't hear you .......   
Oh, I guess numbers matching does have some value. How much is difficult to determine and varies from person to person .... but it has value.
Mark

[pj]

I'm pleased that the number on my engine matches what the Data Card says, and the keys and colours and everything else that I've learned about so far seems to match. I will try to keep track of this info. When the time comes to sell or even just assess the value of my car, I figure that matching numbers will help maintain the value or get more of my investment back or even just help me find a motivated buyer. Maybe it's important for those 100k Euros Pagodas that we read about. But really, how my car runs and the quality of the work that's going in to it matters more, to me and to the objective value.

[Benz Dr.]

Hey Dan,
I know no 2 cars are identical, but if there were two cars sitting in front of you, and they were identical in every way, including price, but one was numbers matching and one wasn't ....
which would you choose?
Speak up a bit, I can't hear you .......   
Oh, I guess numbers matching does have some value. How much is difficult to determine and varies from person to person .... but it has value.
Mark

I'd take the one with the hot looking babe sitting it.

[Peter h]

Original and matching numbers are rare and cost a lot ....
 I went with a friend to Geevers in Holland. He imported vintage Mercedes to Europe in a big way.
 Also, my 280sl was from Geevers. He has a completely original 70's 280SL for sale, 50000 miles. 1 owner no rain or sun. Like new, I can hardly believe it, but it's probably true.
 He has an offer of 80,000 €, but there is too little to him.
My car is not so original, but technically good. I want to drive my car and not put only in the garage.
 Peter

first Picture is the original Pagoda

[thelews]

I'd take the one with the hot looking babe sitting it.

That would be the matching numbers one.

[Iconic]

That would be the matching numbers one.

Very good John.
Thank you. 

[Atazman]

The interesting thing to me on this "matching numbers" discussion is that all of us responders know whether we have matching numbers or not.  If there is no value to having matching numbers, I'm just curious as to why we even spend the time to find out what we have.  Oh yes.... it means something to me.  If I were to sell mine, I would advertise what I have; if I were to buy another one, I would check the numbers.  And I'm not a car collector.  In fact, what little I know about Pagodas is what I have learned from you guys on this forum.

On that note.....  a question for 49er in Placerville.  Do you know what was wrong with your original engine.... the "manufacturing defect" that caused excessive oil consumption"?  I don't want to hijack the thread, so if you have time to send me an E-Mail, I would appreciate it.  atazman@sbcglobal.net

[thelews]

Very good John.
Thank you.  

In all fairness, however, matching numbers, in a sale, becomes more important the lower the quality the car is (all that's left to sell).

[peterm]

matching numbers doesnt always work for the hot babe either- 

Many of there engines especially late 280's with ac cooked their cylinder heads as mine still tries to do

[pablo_o2]

How many matching numbers cars are "made" matching numbers. I'm certain that some of you have a matching numbers car that isn't so matching at all. When you know some restorers, they have the tools to slam the numbers into the parts (hardtop, bonnet, steelplate under gearbox ...) and of course the engine. Do remember that new engines came without any number and had an id plate "taushgeräte" with it. By then de mechanic could bring over the original enginenumber to the blank space. And another thing, there's money involved so matching numbers means more profit...  

[Benz Dr.]

That would be the matching numbers one.

 Yeah, as in a '' pair ''.

[Cees Klumper]

I am mostly with Dan on this one - matching numbers I understood from a restorer once is not so difficult to do so how sure can anyone who is not the original owner really be. When Joe Alexander and I rebuilt my current engine it did not have any number (one of those replacement engines from the factory) and I purposely decided not to put in what would be my car's  matching number (even though I have one of those correct punch die sets sitting in the garage) because to me the actual history of my car is more important than how the car left the factory.

If I were looking at this hypothetical situation of two identical cars and identical price but one matching nos and one not, I would keep looking at what else would be different than just those numbers (because, in reality, none of these 40-year old cars are identical) and I would let those differences decide ...

[wwheeler]

I think the other issue affecting the importance of matching numbers is factory support. Mercedes has to be the best when it comes to providing factory parts and rebuilt components. How many other makes can you still install a factory spec Thermostat for a injection pump that is 40 + years old. Not many if at all. Because of that, the original parts just aren't as important.

Look at the muscle car market which I know about because of my '70 Plymouth Roadrunner. That factory does everything BUT support these cars. After 10 years, they are an afterthought. The only thing available is aftermarket parts and that quality is always questionable. Given that, I would always rather have matching numbers so you know it is factory and not aftermarket stuff. 

[69 280]

Hi everyone,

I am intrigued that we view our 113s as investments. I suspect we do so to make ourselves feel better and make it easier to spend on the repairs.
applying the definition of investment, I don't this these little beauties qualify as such. I think they are more like a high maintenance better half, and that is why I love them.

Cheers

[JamesL]

It seems some Porsche folk swear by the numbers, while others are happy to outlaw and modify thir cars. Certainly, the numbers on the M471s and early-S's seem to matter while no-one seemingly gives a fig about swapping out Sporto gearboxes etc on a T

Over here there's talk of the people with the money buying "real assets" such as cars as they are less risk than the stockmarket, and as a result, you might want to loik in your nearest barn for a 60s Aston Martin (you NEVER know!)

Personally, I see the investment potential limited: the Pagoda is not an "art car" collectible like a D-type or 250 GTO, but is a well built useable, fun, practical old car which will always have a market. Until we run out of gas, that is.  So mine's a driver that I spend money on (a LOT this week) so I can enjoy it, know I am looking after it and hopefully not burn too much capital in the process.