Matching Number SL's ...How many out there.....????

[dseretakis]

So when considering matching numbers, does the head figure in? What needs to match? Engine block and transmission?

[badali]

My car has matching numbers.  I did add the soft top though because mine came from the factory without one.  Easily reversable but I don't think it hurts the value since the soft top was an added option just like cars with the soft top only.  My car has coupe on the title.

[dldubois]

69 w/ matching and 83,ooo miles as of last week!

[Jonny B]

Hey Dan,

The 280 SL I have (as of PUB this year) has all the original numbers and 136K miles.

[bgreene30]

Hi. I just purchased my first pagoda which is a 1969 280SL from the original owners and everything is matching from the drivetrain to the dealer installed frigiking and snow chains.

Cheers

[bdo1]

My 69 SL is all original and matching.  Mileage is 52K documented.

[Wolfmann]

The answer to the original question, in the words of "Mr White" in Reservoir Dogs is :-

"A lot!"

[thelews]

The answer to the original question, in the words of "Mr White" in Reservoir Dogs is :-

"A lot!"

Well, it was quantified in a sale I recently witnessed.  Porsche for over 150K, concours level.  Dropped by 5K when it was determined the engine was not matching numbers, but nonetheless, correct.  So, about 3%.

[Cees Klumper]

So, in our case, the difference would become almost negligible in absloute dollar terms. And that is assuming the matching number engine is actually the original one, for which the number itself offers little evidence (note, I am a professional skeptic as a CPA and fraud auditor).

[thelews]

And that is assuming the matching number engine is actually the original one, for which the number itself offers little evidence (note, I am a professional sceptic as a CPA and fraud auditor).

You mean people cheat?

As I said before, the crappier the car, the more valuable the matching numbers, it's all they have to sell.  That said, legitimate matching numbers on a great car is the cherry on the sundae, and I like and highlight the fact that mine is.  But, I would buy a correct, non-matching numbers better car over a lesser one .

[mdsalemi]

If you google "matching numbers" you'll come up with a variety of short but interesting articles on the subject.

It is less important for us here than in other categories of collector cars, because we don't have anything we can "artificially create" that would be of greater or more significant value in the process.  At best, it tells us what kind of luck a previous owner had (an unfortunate engine demise); and how the problem was approached.

In our case numbers matching isn't going to create a $500,000 rarity.  If you look at some rare American muscle cars, you'll see why it is so important.  Faking a Shelby GT out of an old Mustang, for example.

Peter Lesler always says originality comes first, followed by authenticity.  When we see the wrong engine entirely, or ersatz parts, etc. it tells a lot about how the car was treated along the way.

[douglas dees]

Mine are matching except for the rear end that had a bent drive shaft and broken crown gear. I got a new rear end so I am happy to be somewhat mismatched.
Doug Dees

[Eryck]

My car is matching but I had no idea when I bought it.

The matching number issue only came to light when I bought a Corvette.  Seems like a big thing in the US and as Michael Salemi pointed out, there are reasons behind it.  Here in HK, of all the people at the classic car clubs that I have met or spoken to after all these years, I've never heard anyone mention it even once...

[zoegrlh]

Don't know what is all the problem about matching numbers matching our the data cards.  I think that the large auctions on TV (Berrett's, Mecum"s), that's all you hear, "the numbers are matching".  Mind you that these cars are Vetts and Mustangs.  I did see a 300SL Gullwing on the auction block (Berrett's) and nothing was said that number's matched.  I think it's all about money.  I think when sellers have numbers matching, then they assume they will get more money for a "more" perfect example of the original.  To me a perfect example is a car that has had a perfect restoration based on available existing parts.  Are we looking to make money on our SLs or are we wanting to enjoy and preserve the W113 for our next generation.  Mine 1970 280SL - Euro specs, has all original numbers as on the data card, in fact, if you want to talk numbers, when I replaced the leathers of by interior, I noticed that the factory had stamped the car's VIN number on the back side of each of all the leather pieces (i.e.. dash, seats bottoms and backs, foot well panels, door panels, soft top boot cover etc.).  This was done at the factory to assure that the cuts of leather was for the correct body that was being pushed down the line, based on the order/data card.  Since these pieces were machine cut but inserted/glued by hand, each piece was additionally cut when gluing to assure a perfect fit.  When I installed my new leathers, I also made a stamp to match the original stamp with VIN number, to also stamp onto my new leather pieces. (This process was presented by me in the tech session held at PUB 2009).  Matching numbers to me only mean that they are one piece of the puzzle of the history of our W113s.
Bob

[louisz]

I dont even have the Data Card!!  Will post a question later

[ctm14]

My car is a 69' Italian 280 with a ZF 5 speed. When I was inspecting the car I was focused on the gear box being original which was proven by the data card. Besides this I was primarily concerned with body condition and originality. I never actually verified it was a numbers matching engine.  I just checked and the engine matches the data card and it brought a smile to my face. I guess it is just one extra piece to the puzzle, something that shows it is close to the way it left the factory.  Would I have still bought it if it had been changed at some point, probably but I feel more secure in my decision with each bit of originality I discover.

[ljg]

I have collected vintage Ferraris and Porsches for many years.  In my opinion, matching numbers are significant especially when considering the purchase of an investment grade vehicle.  I would not have purchased my 14,000 original mile 280 SL without complete documentation including the correct numbers.
ljg

[Benz Dr.]

None of this means anything. The real test is when people start paying more at auction for a numbers matching car - when that happens then they're worth more. Having a car that matches right now that may be worth more in the future, is a great thing but until that time comes, it's mostly one of those '' feel good '' things.

[t walgamuth]

Everybody wants to buy a matching numbers car.  That does not stop them from modifying them though.  Old Ferrari guys don't care about originality the way corvette guys do.  I think partly that is because there was so much hand work done on the old Ferraris that it was often uncertain exactly what was orignal.  Also the number of F cars is much less than corvettes so exact originality is a way to distinguish your corvette from the others.

I had a 59 Ferrari 250 gt pf coupe which I sold for a lot of money even though it had many issues.  It was highly original with matching numbers  and complete even though the paint color had been changed by the po in 1968 and the interior color was changed by me.  The UK buyer promplty rebuilt the motor and upgraded many parts to GTO spec.  Go figure.

These Pagodas are really well built in the mb tradition.  There are lots of them so they will never be as collectible as a Ferrari with a total build number of 700 or so but I think they will keep getting more valuable.  I would pay a bit more for one with matching numbers all other things being equal.  Does that degrade a non matching car?  No not really, but you can probably buy the them for less but you will have just as much fun with them for less money.  You might get less when you sell but you didn't pay as much so it all balances out.