Thinking about my first vintage car purchase.

[P31-C63]

Hello everyone, awesome forum; I love all of the info and plan to read it all

I'm looking at getting into a vintage convertible and have always loved the Pagodas and Pontons.
I've never owned a vintage car, but I'm pretty capable of minor repairs/maintenance and also willing to pay a pro when needed.
I'm a huge German car fanatic and have owned many late model BMWs and MBs

This will be a #3 car for me and be more of a sunny weekend crusier around town and the occasional car shows and enthusiast events
I also have a brand new AMG garage queen that I use when I need 500hp!! and the weather is right.

This vintage car will get very little use as I have a young family and already struggle to find time to drive and detail my current cars.

I know the Pagodas tend to be less headaches (mechanically) as compared to the Pontons and also less money in the same condition.
I'd love to have one of each, but my wallet and garage space is not cooperating!
I know my personality and i will want a car that is as close to perfect as possible.
Fully restored is preferred and my max budget is  $60k.
From my research, the 190sl is close to $100k in this shape, but it appears that I can get a great Pagoda for $60k.

I love the red interiors and prefer silver or grey outside, but I also would entertain black paint too. I like the earlier Pagodas  (230 or early 250), but the 280s tend to have more parts available.

So my question is this:
Should I get a really nice Pagoda for $60k or a decent Ponton which will need more work?
And about how much should I expect for annual maintenance for each car in it's respectful condition?

Thanks in advance!

[thelews]

Always, buy the best car you can afford.  You will never be able to restore it (using others) for less.  The seller ate it.

My friend has a VERY nice 280 SL with stick (rare) for sale.  Also has the 123 all electronic distributor/ignition in it and runs beautifully.  Significantly less than 60K.  I saw this car last week, it's as nice as the pictures.  Air conditioning too!

http://www.memory-motors.com/Show_Car.php?CAR_ID=114

I have a 190 SL too.  There is no comparison between how the two drive, the 113 is far more evolved.  But, the 190 SL is better looking (according to most gawkers).  Car for car in comparable condition, the 190 SL is almost double the price.

I spent the price of oil and a filter on my 250 SL this year.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8292359@N06/sets/72157603240571101/show/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8292359@N06/sets/72157603042682741/show/

[P31-C63]

Thanks Lews.
I saw pics of your 250 in other threads--I love the 250s, especially the early ones with the hard door pockets, etc.
Thanks for the albums of both cars, your cars look amazing! I especially love the 190, they are classy cars, no doubt.
I just can't afford one in the condition I'd like right now--heck, I wish I could have a minty 300SL too!!

I actually was just looking at the 280 you linked.
I think I've found every w113 for sale on the web right now and I'm still doing my research on the market and who carries the best cars usually.
Since the w113s are relatively new cars, it appears a properly sorted and restored one can be pretty worry free and useable.

As much as I'd like to own a 190 right now, I know that for $60k I'd get a vehicle that always needs something done and is never quite right (to me).

Any other members have pics to share of their w113s with red interior and either 173G, 124G, 190G, or 180G paint?
That 173G/Red one shown in the paint codes section of the Tech Man is awesome looking--any other pics of that car? That combo looks really nice to me!

[ctm14]

   I didn't think a 190 was called a ponton.  Is there a name for it other than 190SL?

[GGR]

Yes, though I think the 190SL is built on the ponton platform, Ponton convertible and 190SL are different cars.

If I summarise your position, you won't have much time to dedicate to the car, apart from maintenance and easy stuff you will have the rest sorted by professionals ($$), your standards are high and you have the budget to buy a real nice example. Then you are in the lucky position to buy a car that was all well sorted for much more $$ than the asking price. I second the advice given to you earlier: buy the best you can afford. It will be much cheaper than buying a cheaper one and bringing it to the same level. Your only problem is to find the color combination you like. I think a lot of us would like to trade issues we have with our cars with that one.

Professionals offer a guarantee, but they also take their cut. Best would be to find someone who restored a Pagoda to proven and documented high standards. you would pay a bit less, and the seller who put all that energy and money in a restoration would also lose a bit less.

[Cees Klumper]

The car linked by John looks great and surely seems worth a look. I was a bit disappointed by the claim of "extensive mechanical restoration" because that is only backed up by two items: a re-built front suspension, and re-built mechanical fuel injection; the rest I would consider ordinary maintenance ("new hoses and clamps, all fluids replaced, new front wheel bearings, and new Vredestein 185HR14 BSW Tires"). Although no doubt the rebuilds of the front suspension and injection were pricy, there are many more mechanical components that can be 'restored' (or, rather, rebuilt) such as differential, engine, transmission, starter, alternator, brakes.

I don't think you can make the full evaluation and purchase decision without seeing the cars and taking test drives though; the best process, like recruiting a new employee, should involve paring down the list of possible candidates down to a couple and then interviewing them in person. No two of these cars are the same by now, and there are huge differences in driving characteristics and 'feel'.

Best of luck with the search, and I agree that, economicall speaking, best is to buy one that has been completely restored.

[thelews]

The 190 SL was built on a shortened 180 frame and is considered one of the Ponton era cars.  Many parts from the 180 were used for the 190 SL.  The engine, specifically the overhead cam, was the major departure in technology from the "mainstream" Pontons.  http://www.mbzponton.org/

I know there was more mechanical work done than just the front end and injection pump on the 280 SL I highlighted.  And, it was extensive.  I think my friend was just pointing out two big ones that are costly for the 113.  If anyone is interested, he would be more than happy to produce a list of everything done.  Black Forest did it all.  The car drives beautifully.

[Iconic]

Any other members have pics to share of their w113s with red interior and either 173G, 124G, 190G, or 180G paint?
That 173G/Red one shown in the paint codes section of the Tech Man is awesome looking--any other pics of that car? That combo looks really nice to me!

Regarding the 173G one you are referencing from the paint code section, that is mine, Thank you !. 
Here is a link to a few more pictures. They are in reply #6.  http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=14106.0
There is a another member on the forum with the same combo. I don't think he posted too many pix.
You've been given very good advice here. Take your time and have professionals check the car out if you are in the $60k price range.
Good luck and enjoy the ride !!

[P31-C63]

Thanks for the replies everyone.
Sorry if I misspoke by referring to the 190 as a Ponton, but I swore I read it being referenced as such.
Maybe it's labeled as a Ponton Era car as Lews suggested and I misunderstood.

Ideally, I'd love to buy my car somewhat local and use the same shop for any repairs, etc.
I believe in creating a relationship with the people who work on my cars.
Luckily, I'm in New England and have many great dealers in my area.

Iconic, thanks for the link to your car.
I love that combo!
Your seats look darker red in the link than the pic in the Tech Man, did you change them or is it just the lighting used?
Thanks again.

Any other red interior and silver/grey pics?

[GGR]

Here is a good description of what to look at: http://motoringinvestments.com/MainPage.htm

Rust is a real issue on these cars. They even seem to rot more than the W111 Coupes and Sedans, according to all the ones I've seen on the east coast while looking for one. I ended up finding a car with no or really very little rust and a good original leather interior. The car was from Texas and must have been garaged most or all its life. You need to get one from the southern states that had been garaged.

[Iconic]

Iconic, thanks for the link to your car.
I love that combo!
Your seats look darker red in the link than the pic in the Tech Man, did you change them or is it just the lighting used?
Thanks again.

Just the lighting I guess. They have not been changed and are the original MB-Tex 132.

[thelews]

Sorry if I misspoke by referring to the 190 as a Ponton, but I swore I read it being referenced as such.
Maybe it's labeled as a Ponton Era car as Lews suggested and I misunderstood.

You did not misspeak.  It's a Ponton era car and is considered a Ponton.

[WasFuzz]

I'm thinking about my 1st too. There are a lot out there. Everything from trailer queens to complete disasters. I'm a little nervous about the cost and availibility of parts. There are a beautiful car! Where is a good place to look to make sure you get a good one?

[Garry]

Think outside the square.  This member andy has one but it is in Spain.

andyandlyn@terra.es

[KevinC]

I'm thinking about my 1st too. There are a lot out there. Everything from trailer queens to complete disasters. I'm a little nervous about the cost and availibility of parts. There are a beautiful car! Where is a good place to look to make sure you get a good one?

I travel quite a bit on business and was fortunate to look at cars all over the US. My recommendation is try to look in areas that don't receive significant snowfall therefore not subjected to road salt which of course leads to rust. If you consider perhaps up to $500 for a plane flight for an inspection trip and maybe $800 - $1000 to trailer home, it can really be a worthy investment. I bought a rust-free 130,000 mile car in Napa, CA in 2004 and couldnt be more happy.

Try searching   http://www.mercedesheritage.com/