Top speed

[Bob G ✝︎]

On my way to a car show in Northridge California I gotthe old beast up to 75MPH, thats when I noticed the corrections in the steering I had to make so I backed down. I rebuild the rear & fron suspension and put new Bilsteins and sport springs in for John Olson. I am sure my car can exceed 100MPH the question is do I want to be throughen in jail to prove it.
anyone know of a good crimial attorney?

Bob Geco

[gugel]

quote:Originally posted by Klaus

.it is easy to calculate the top speed for your car. You only need the tire size, gear and rear axle ratio. As examples, based on this, a M/T car with 185 tires and i=3.69 should drive 204 kmh at 6500 rpm, and a M/T car with 205/70 tires and i=4.08 should drive 193 kmh at 6500 rpm.

This is close, but not quite right.
 
    km/h = rpm x 60 / ( rear end ratio x tire revs per km), but the revs/km can't be accurately calculated from just the tire size because the tire diameter is slightly smaller under load.  For example, a 185/80-14 tire (the 113 original size) has a calculated diameter of 65.16 cm, which would result in 488.5 revs/km, or a speed of 216 km/h at 6500 rpm with a 3.69 rear end.  But the Tire Rack gives 811 revs/mile = 503.9 revs/km for a Bridgestone that size under load.  Using that figure gives a speed of 210 km/h at 6500 rpm with a 3.69 rear end (assuming no tire slippage).  For a 205/70-14 Bridgestone the Tire Rack gives 814 revs/mile = 505.8 revs/km, giving a speed of 189 km/h at 6500 rpm with a 4.08 rear end.

quote:Originally posted by Bob Geco

.How come when our cars where built and Ferrari and Porsche could do 130 to 150 MPH Mercedes-Benz choose to limit a six cylinder engine to such a boring speed that our cars do.  Even the BMW 3.0. CS could do 130 MPH

Not sure what you mean by "even" -- the 113 is indeed elegant and a wonderful car, but the CS is newer with more modern technology, and when it comes to driving, is superior to the 113 in almost every way.  I had remembered the top speed of a stick shift CS as 201 km/h = 125 mph, but my owner's manual gives that as the maximum permitted sustained speed, and the top speed as 132 mph at 6400 rpm, or 128 mph for the automatic.  The CSi had a top speed of 220 km/h = 137 mph.  

I've never driven my CS at top speed here, but I sometimes did drive my CSi at top speed in Germany.  It was fun, but required so much alertness that I usually settled for a more comfortable normal cruising speed  of 180 km/h = 112 mph on the Autobahn.  As yet, I've only driven my SL here at about 80 mph = 129 km/h.  

Chris Earnest

[JamesL]

I work on the principle that I get 10mph for each 500 RPM

Mine will be sitting at 3500 at 70mph, and at 4000 at 80mph (and 2500 at 50mph)

And I have been up to about 5250 RPM - 105mph. Sounds fine but I do have visions of an old piston fliying through the head

The sweet spot really is between 3500 and 4500 RPM - 70 - 90.

My last trip was early in the morning and overtaking in the old girl is fun (particularly in a 60mph limit)- especially knowing that the bloke you have just passed is wondering how he's just been passed by a 35 year old car. I also gave a 996 a run for it's money on the highway back from that trip and I think he was bemused that the oldtimer was happily sitting with him for a few miles

[France]

Hi Guys,

I took Carling up to 95mph on Interstate 75 in Sarasota.  She was smooth as silk.  I love it when some Nissan at a stop light thinks he's gonna get in front of me... looks of surprise as a 37-year-old car disappears!  Lots of smiles from modern SL drivers.

Actually my fave is when decelerating topless--that lovely POPpoppoppop burbling out of the exhaust.  No wonder the Brits call it pop and fizzle.

Trice
1968 280SL US, signal red/bl leather, auto, kinder

[Vince Canepa]

Interesting that many have said the "sweet spot" is 70-90mph.  It would agree - my car is eerily quiet between 4,200 and 5,000 rpm.  When I used to "commute" from Santa Cruz to San Francisco, CA up Hwy 1, I ran that range for the whole trip, with runs up to 6,500 rpm on the long straights.  These cars really do perk up and become sports cars once you get past 60mph.  Below that my 2000 Golf is just as quick and much quieter.

I have seen 6,800 rpm occasionally and once reached 7,000 - but there was a 40mph tailwind on that run.

Vince Canepa
1967 250SL
113.043-10-001543
568H Signal Red
116 Caviar MB-Tex

[mdsalemi]

This response is usually Rodd's...

Factory data on the M130 (280SL) engine with the 3.92 rear end indicates maximum HP at about 5800 RPM; highest efficiency (whatever that means...) at about 5600 RPM and maximum torque at about 4400 RPM.  So, based on this data one would expect to see these wonderful feelings at higher speeds and higher RPMs.  This data is from the reprint of the "Owners Manual".  When I'm cruising at 75MPH in my 113, there's all kinds of room to get it quicker in a hurry--it really wants to pull away even at that speed.  I dare not do much more then 80--not too safe to do around here--crowded highways, police, large trucks spewing stones, etc.

Contrast this with my Ford Explorer SportTrac which cruises on the highway at 80MPH no problem...at about 2500 RPM[:0]

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored

[gugel]

Several responders have said the sweet spot for a Pagoda is between 70 and 90 mph.  This doubtless has to do with the characteristics of the car itself, but I wonder if it's also partly due to our comfort level as drivers (in any car), and to the speeds of other drivers.  

In the US, I tend to cruise at about 80-85 when I can in just about any car I'm driving -- for example, BMW Bavaria, Ford Taurus, Mercedes ML320, or a typical rental car.  (Any slower than that on I-5 between LA and SF gets you run over!)  I do sometimes cruise at higher speeds (100) in the ML and some other cars, but usually about 80 is most comfortable for me for a long distance.  Even Germany has set its Richtgescwindigkeit -- recommended speed -- at 130 km/h = 81 mph, and many people do seem to drive at about that speed there.  

As I've mentioned,though, my comfortable cruising speed in Germany is higher -- about 180 km/h = 112 mph -- again in various different cars.  For example, I recently rented a Peugeot there with a tiny engine, and while it would go 200 km/h or faster, I found myself cruising on the Autobahn at about 180 most of the time. Typical speeds (and attentiveness levels) of other drivers are certainly higher in Germany than here, and that seems to affect my own most comfortable speed.  (It isn't the express highways, which are now often better and less crowded here than there)

Chris

[France]

Oh, dear, Chris!

You must not have been on the A8 to Stuttgart lately!    What a parking lot, no matter what the time of day.  The only time you'll be doing anywhere near 180 kph is the dead of night or early Sunday morning.  In fact, many of the motorways in Germany are now parking lots.  I have also noticed a severe deterioration of driving skills there within the last 20 years.  Most people seem to be asleep, not using their rear-view mirrors, and the old system of flashing lights and staying out of the fast lane (supposedly the passing lane) has died.  They just stay put.  While we still drive the XJS and SL at 180 plus, I never fool myself that anyone around me has any skill at handling a crisis.  The ultimate result can be seen on the Italian motorways, where a US-survivable accident results in a charred shell.  I've seen way too many of those... come to Alsace if you really want to drive!

Trice
1968 280SL US, signal red/bl leather, auto, kinder

[gugel]

quote:Originally posted by France

Oh, dear, Chris!

You must not have been on the A8 to Stuttgart lately!    What a parking lot, no matter what the time of day.  The only time you'll be doing anywhere near 180 kph is the dead of night or early Sunday morning.  In fact, many of the motorways in Germany are now parking lots.  I have also noticed a severe deterioration of driving skills there within the last 20 years.  Most people seem to be asleep, not using their rear-view mirrors, and the old system of flashing lights and staying out of the fast lane (supposedly the passing lane) has died.  They just stay put.  While we still drive the XJS and SL at 180 plus, I never fool myself that anyone around me has any skill at handling a crisis.  

Well, I'm used to Los Angeles freeways, so maybe my expectations are just lower.  As it happens, I was on the A8 near Stuttgart late on the Friday afternoon between the Himmelsfahrt holiday and the weekend, so it wasn't surprising that it was a parking lot.  But the A70 from Bamberg to Bayreuth, the A92 and A3 from Munich to Passau, the A96 from Munich to the Bodensee (except for the construction zones), and even the A5 from Walldorf to Darmstadt later on that same Friday were mostly quite reasonable.  I admit the proliferation of trucks which are limited to 80 kph does make driving more of a challenge.  Of course, Lichthupen is no longer used (or even legal, I believe), but turning on the left direction signal serves the same purpose and worked pretty well.  All in all, though, I definitely agree with you that driving in Germany is not the same as it was 20 years ago!

Chris

[n/a]

About 25 years ago I tried out the top speed in my parents' '69 280sl.  With the soft top up, I had it at the redline on a cool (high 50s/low 60s) evening; the engine felt as strong as I'd ever felt it.  On a slight downhill, the indicated speed was right between 123 and 125 mph.  Its very hard to read the needle at that spot on the dial because of the knob used to reset the trip odometer obscures the speed numbers.  

I now have a '68 280sl which I once had up to just over 105 mph.  

I agree with those who find the 113s to have a natural gait of around 85 mph.  I don't think it carries over to other cars - my wife's c320 wagon feels like it is parked when its going 85.

[German Dude]

About 24 of the 9,000 km I have driven the Pagoda since last year were done on the A3, right by my house. Not a whole lot of fun.

I had her up to 140 km/h once, but that was on a regular Bundesstrasse.
As one poster wrote: She becomes really quite engine-wise, but maybe that's because you have a veritable tornado in the car since the windows and the top are down...

Knowing that she can if she has to, I am happy to stroll along at 90 km/h.

Juergen
64 230SL #2933, 4sp, signal red, white hard top
93 Citroen XM station wagon

[mdsalemi]

I generally cruise on the highway at 75 mph, on the way to and from Blacklick, there were occasional "bursts" to 90+; I agree it seems to want to go that fast and faster, it is me who does not!

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored

[JPMOSE]

I had my 250SL up to 105 MPH a couple of weeks ago in Atlanta (with the top down) and didn't pursue my madness any further.     I wished I paid attention to the tachometer...I know it is very 4000 RPM at 80 MPH.  What impressed me was how solid the car was!

Best Regards,

J. P. Mose
1968 250SL

[n/a]

Great discussion Cees, as I just thought to start a discussion about the cornering capabilities of the Pagoda. This weekend I drove my car home at night over the dutch highways doing 150 km/h for half an hour stretch, doing only around 4250-4500 RPM, the engine was having a ball (so was I) and felt like it could do a lot more, but as I said, it was dark...so I behaved. The main trill though I get from corners with my car (not straight top speed), I can't do a slow corner, the car just begs to dive in corners and accelarate, and it corners so well its just amazing...I once red they had a test when the Pagode was launched in Italy and it only lost 0.10 seconds on a lap to a Ferrari 250 GT!! Sometimes I get cars following me in long fast corners on the highway, but seldom you meet a car that could keep up if you floor the pagoda....am I the only one feeling this great roadstickyness of the pagoda?  Last but not least I really love the sound of the car coming out of a tunnel:-) what a thrill!!


230 sl 2.8 - 1966
ex 400 SEL 1993
ex 450 SEL 1974
ex 230.6 1966
ex 230.6 1974
ex 280S 1969

[mulrik]

I had mine at ~180 km/h last summer in Sweden, in the dead of night and all alone!!!! The car felt rock-solid. I felt there was a little more to go but not much. I did it with the soft-top on.  I agree with the roadholding capacity. I'm having a friendly argument with a friend of mine who has an E-type. I claim that I'll outrun him on any decently twisted track, even though the Jaguar is faster flat-out, he's confident he'll beat me, but he has yet to answer me if he also thinks he can out-run a Ferrari 250 GT....


'67 250 SL Papyrus White 113043-10-000023

[joelj]

Wow 180  KPH thats a lot of speed The fastest I drove my Paogda was around 140kph. I did not see the tach so I can't tell what that reading was. Just like you guys it wanted more but I am no race car driver so I maintaied it to where I am comfortable. Yea yea I know chicken chicken hehehe

Just like Mulrik and Mark, my 1969 280SL automatic with 120K Kilometers on the clock was rock solid.  The steering was so steady it would put newer cars to shame. It did not have a single wiggle.

Of course the most pleasure I derrive from driving my pagoda is when I am driving slow  in the city and the people all around me are giving me a huge smile and a thumbs up sign

Yeah thats what its all about  

Cheers group,



1969 280sl auto
White exterior
Blue interior

[harleydan]

I once pegged the speedometer at 220 kph for about five miles.  I was going as fast as a friend's new Mercury Capri 5.0 or Ford Mustang 5.0 liter, and my friend was suprised that I kept up.  At that speed my car felt strong and controllable.  Of course that does not mean my car actually went that fast.  I do not remember at what rpm it was turning at that speed.  That was many years ago (~22 years) and it is my strong belief that the car would still do it (because it now runs better and stronger, and the suspension has been upgraded); however, I would not do it now.  I do nonetheless rev it up to 5,500-6,000 rpm on an infrequent basis; however, after reading some of the other inputs to this forum maybe I should not.

Danny
1970 280SL Euro manual

[n/a]

Hello Cees,

Mine 230 SL automatic was doing 135 mph on the A28 last year. Only the speedo was a little optismistic: by checking the accurate speed with my tomtom  she was "only" driving about 185 kph. Still not bad. As I rememberred, I was driving topless. Just felt great!

Maybe I should trade my speedo with Gerhard because his speedo is showing to low..

230 SL '67 Automatic

[Cees Klumper]

Wing! Watch out! The A28 is hunting grounds for our ever vigilant highway patrol (the 'KLPD'). Still, they would probably look favorably upon such an old girl giving them a run for their money. In fact, once I was sure I was photographed at maybe 20 km too fast and the ticket never came in. I attributed that to KLPD 'gedoogbeleid'.

Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[n/a]

Hello Cees,

Thanks for the warning. I am aware of their appearances. About four  years ago I was driving top speed with mine former oldtimer at about 01.00 am on the same road: driving about 180 kph itopless with a MGB. The temperature was about 4 degrees Celsius (very cold).
At some point I saw a motorcyle in mine mirrow. Coming in with high speed. I reduced mine speed, but that was a little late: he passed me while I was driving about 165 kph: it proved to be a policeman. He looked to me. I looked to him. I felt his smile. He drove on. I drove on.

The reason for driving that fast is, that I sometime "clean the engine" by burning the dirt insight the engine (I was told in mine childhood that this is a good thing to do from time to time. Especially because these cars usualy are driving very carefully (we also did this with the 10 years old VW Golf (Rabbit in the USA) convertible of mine wive last year on a trip to Berlin. After that the car uses less fuel (about 10%), topspeed raised with 10 kph, and the torgue felt definitely stronger. Minw wife uses this car only for short trip for the last eight years).

For those who wants to do this: make sure your engine is in a good condition. Listen carefully for noises and don't try to drive max speed after a long period of stalling.

230 SL '67 Automatic

[Cees Klumper]

In the US, this type of engine cleaning is known as 'an Italian tune-up' ('Italiaanse onderhoudsbeurt') ...

Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[Cees Klumper]

Returning from Frankfurt to Amsterdam this afternoon, I decided to 'open it up' for a while to check top speed and do a proper Italian tune-up. The car pulled nicely all the way to 6,000 RPM. It hovered there for about 5 seconds, then slowly accellerated further. At 6,200 RPMs and 120 MPH (194 KPH) I decided it was enough and slowed back down to the 3,800 RPM that I kept at for the rest of the 250-mile trip.

Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[abe280SL]

Just renewing this interesting topic.  My 68 280sl does well at 80-85mph...but I do not agree it wants to go much facter.  I know it could..by the whinning engine and it makes me feel uneasy.  The Porsche (83sc)..not that car the faster you go the better it feels.  Soooo, any new speed updates since this was first posted?
abe

[Jim Donati]

I got my 1970 280SL up to 80 mph this last weekend on a straight stretch of Highway 1 on the Central Coast of California.  It quickly and easily got up to that speed, but I did not feel like pushing the car any further.  I could have made 85 mph with not problem, but I just don't see the point of pushing the ol' girl or my driving skills to their limit.  I think I will leave that to the younger drivers and younger cars!

 

JIM

[peterm]

not that I shy away from speed-  I must be a little concerned over the groups "behavior"  Please remember that these are 40 year+ old cars, I'm sure many still have 40 year old suspension bits and more, failure is not impossible with age and at challenging speeds I'm concerned.  Add to that the lack of "modern" safety gear,- our simple three point belts, no air bag, no abs, no traction control nannies, absolutely no roll over considerations- perhaps caution might be a good piece of advice.  Just my 0.02