Whitewall tyres in the UK

[Russell]

not sure about the vredesteins after reading this thread

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=1159000

[SIbby]

I have owned my 250SL for three years and thought I should check out the tyres even though they still had plenty of tread. Our favourite tyre dealer who looks after many classic cars in Adelaide said that they were 1989 tyres and therefore dangerously perished and should be changed.

He recommended 185/75R14 89S SUMITOMO SC890 WSW. They were at the very reasonable price of $125 Australian.  They were also white walled - a feature that I had not previously considered but the price and availability won the day.  They look great and drive well.

My car is traditional white (originally horizon blue) and I agree that the white walls are too white at present but hopefully they will better match the car as they get older.

I presume that these tyres are available in N America and Europe but they do not seem to get a mention on the forum.

Is there an forum view on tyre age?

Sibby

[Garry]

Have heard some say 5 - 7 years and others 7 - 10 but no one suggests more than 10 years old.

I changed mine at 8 years even though they had done only about 10,000km (6000 Mls)  Just not worth the risk and you can see the tire starting to perish at about that point. 

[Brian Davidson]

Russell. look at the hancook website.it is very informative. then ring dougal the owner of longstone and ask his advice. the larger 205s wont fit on the boot tyre carrier. i sent a couple or e mails to you by the wrong route and got admonished by Peter.Brian.

[Iconic]

well it is good to know that the 205's fit.

Russell,
I wouldn't assume the 205s fit. IMHO you should check to see exactly what wheel width you have and then seek the advice of an expert.
I would not put 205s on a 5.5 inch wheel (certainly not without checking first).

[Markbhai]

I have read today that the Maxxis MA1 is a whitewall and is a 185/14 tyre too.

I have yet to find out how much these cost, but will update tomorrow if I get the anwer.

Mark.

[Russell]

yes wise words about the 205 on a 5.5" i am just not sure.
i dont recall there being a well in my car but might have time to go there soon and take lots of pictures. i guess if i had a standard spare that was different in size to a 205 it would get me home.
the hankook looks a good tyre that loads of people have used and half sensible money. all the other whitewalls seem unknown makes or a £250 a corner.
i might phone the guy from longstone as suggested

[KevinC]

I have read today that the Maxxis MA1 is a whitewall and is a 185/14 tyre too.

I have yet to find out how much these cost, but will update tomorrow if I get the anwer.

Mark.

They dont show the 185/80/14's but have these at... £ 72.00 + VAT

http://www.northhantstyres.com/RTS%20final/1957514.html

[Garry]

I have a set of 2" Coker ww's to fit as per the original advertisements and videos but have not had a chance to fit them yet, as I work my way through bigger problems of engine rebuild and some rust issues now.

Will not fit them till early in new year to see how they look.

[Larry & Norma]

Being a little concerned about my Vredesteins after previous link I had a look at them and
sure enough they have the radial grooves as seen by some owners. All my tyres exhibit this
to a greater or lesser extent. I then visited a tyre shop to get a professional opinion. Unbiased
as he did not supply them and would have gained by supplying replacements quote ' Nothing to
worry about, these are moulding marks where the tyre is assembled in two halves. This can be
much more evident on tyres with high side walls such as the Vredestein classic tyres'
So for those with Vredesteins don't panic

[Russell]

i just got a very concise response from a very well respected tyre supplier. a newbie here so i am not sure of the forum rules and as i haven't asked his permission, i wont say his name but thought his views might be handy to anyone else looking. Happy to PM anyone who it is.

There are a few points
•   A 1964 car would not have fitted 205/70R14 tyres because they had not been invented yet.
•   Earlier 230, 250, 280 and 300 Mercedes cars would have fitted 185R14 tyres which is more suited to a 5.5” rim
•   A 205/70R14 will fit on a 5.5” rim but 6” would be more stable.
•   We have a 195/75R14 Hercules (£ 73 + VAT) that we often sell for these cars. and is a bit closer in width to the 185R14
•   We can supply 205/70R14 Hankook white band tyres (£ 72 + VAT)
•   The car will drive much better on 185HR14 Michelin MXV-P (£ 199 + VAT). They are much better tyres.

To Summarise I heavily recommend, as a classic car driver, to fit the Michelin 185HR14 MXV-P it is miles better than anything else and the car will drive the way it should with a suitable speed rating. White wall tyres are not as good as a good branded European tyre. specially Michelin.

If you really need the white band we can supply either the 205/70R14 or the 195/75R14 but I feel that the 195/75 would be a little more suited to your rims.

[mdsalemi]

Russell,

The white walls can be added or vulcanized onto any tire of your choosing, including the MXV tire.  Yes it adds up, but it can be done.  There are a couple of places here in the USA that do it.
The MXV was a reasonably priced tire until it went "off production" and into the Michelin Classic department and low volume. Price skyrocketed!
Porta-Walls are an option: http://www.portawalls.com/index.html  Though I don't think they are as good for long term use as a true tire.

[KevinC]

i just got a very concise response from a very well respected tyre supplier. a newbie here so i am not sure of the forum rules and as i haven't asked his permission, i wont say his name but thought his views might be handy to anyone else looking. Happy to PM anyone who it is.

There are a few points
•   A 1964 car would not have fitted 205/70R14 tyres because they had not been invented yet.
•   Earlier 230, 250, 280 and 300 Mercedes cars would have fitted 185R14 tyres which is more suited to a 5.5” rim
•   A 205/70R14 will fit on a 5.5” rim but 6” would be more stable.
•   We have a 195/75R14 Hercules (£ 73 + VAT) that we often sell for these cars. and is a bit closer in width to the 185R14
•   We can supply 205/70R14 Hankook white band tyres (£ 72 + VAT)
•   The car will drive much better on 185HR14 Michelin MXV-P (£ 199 + VAT). They are much better tyres.

To Summarise I heavily recommend, as a classic car driver, to fit the Michelin 185HR14 MXV-P it is miles better than anything else and the car will drive the way it should with a suitable speed rating. White wall tyres are not as good as a good branded European tyre. specially Michelin.

If you really need the white band we can supply either the 205/70R14 or the 195/75R14 but I feel that the 195/75 would be a little more suited to your rims.

Russell,

Certainly feel free to post supplier/service shop recommendations as you see fit. The group understands that you are simply passing on their information as a service to other owners and that they should always make purchasing decisons based on a pool of information as opposed to one person's advice. Still, receiving a good recommendation has always weighed heavily with me personally.

Also, I would suggest that your local tyre supplier have you some very good advice ..except that possibly you can't set white walls and blackwalls necessarily in seperate categories of "quality" as all of the premium brands made whitewalls at one time or another...and who knows...they might even bring them back?? Interestingly you can buy Cooper whitewalls still from a supplier in the US. Of course, he was dead-on concerning the width... the three digit designation "185", "195", "205" and so on is the width in centimeters of each particular model.

Kevin

[Russell]

The Michelin 185-14, just like the Vredestein Classic's, can certainly be fitted with white-wall at an additional charge.
two vendors are:
http://www.oldtimer-reifen.com/en/
http://www.oldtimerreifen-moeller.de/english/index.html
/Hans in Sweden

Well in the end i took the advice of several here like Griffin who rated the Michelin tyres and hence went for those. Dougal at Longstone tyres also endorsed it and gave good advice so i would buy from them without hesitation. alas.........for some reason i still wanted whitewalls and they dont do them retro fitted so i took Hans's advice in the end, i went to the guys above and have bought the Michelin with the whitewalls fitted and all €268 each plus tax. easy people to deal with as well.
so....after all that, i got what i wanted in the end all ways round, apart from the price.

[KevinC]

Russell,

Don't forget to post pics once they are mounted!

Kevin

[Russell]

Russell,

Don't forget to post pics once they are mounted!

Kevin

will do kevin, i went to see her now she is back and i think my first looks enthusiasm are now for sure grounded. i think a fair bit of work is needed to get this on the road but ho hum
i might be posting here a fair bit more than i first thought. at least i can close this post until they are on as decision made. thank you to everyone that got me there, much appreciated as i think i might have the best of all worlds because of it.

[TR]

Russell,

I also look forward to seeing the photos.  What width of white wall did they put on your MXV-P tires?  3/4 inch perhaps?

[Russell]

Russell,

I also look forward to seeing the photos.  What width of white wall did they put on your MXV-P tires?  3/4 inch perhaps?

yes i went for 20mm. you can get bigger but i didnt want to chance it and get it wrong. its a beige car so could have looked odd

[TR]

Thanks for the feedback Russell.  Your choice of the 20mm wide white wall strip makes sense.  Hopefully it looks like it "belongs" on the tyre, (as opposed to having been added to the tyre).

[hauser]

There's another important factor to consider when ordering custom WW tires other than what width WW to go with.  One has to consider the distance from the edge of the rim.  This is where i failed not giving this small detail more attention.  I went with their standard 1" from the rim.  Once it was all together with the hubcaps something was a little off.  After looking at the car from all different angles I figured out the WW was too far out from the rim.  Perhaps I should have gone 1/2" instead.  Wouldn't be so bad if it hadn't cost me $2K.

[TR]

Hauser,

You are bang on about needing the proper distance from the edge of the rim to the white wall.  I have the original spare that came with my car and took that measurement just yesterday.  The white wall starts at precisely 1/2" (well, according to my trusty tape measure) from the edge of the rim.  From the outer portion of the white wall to the beginning of the rub strip it measured ~3/8", and to the center of the rub strip was ~5/8".  Wish I had been able to make you aware of those measurements earlier.

Based on having cost $2K I assume you are also running the Michelin MXV-P?  BTW, my understanding is Coker bought the molds from Michelin along with the right to manufacture that tire ... not certain that's correct though.

[hauser]

Tom

I went with a plus 1 wheel and tire combo.  I am running a 205/65/15 tire on a 15 x 7" MB wheel. 

The 15" MB hubcaps weren't cheap and neither were the wheels.  In time I'll come out ahead then having to buy $300+ per tire. 

I went with a Michelin Primacy = $100 per.  I'll never wear a set of tires out within the safe life of the tire.

With this set up the car drives better than ever.  I'm very pleased with the outcome.

[MrAZ]

Russell,

The white walls can be added or vulcanized onto any tire of your choosing, including the MXV tire.  Yes it adds up, but it can be done.  There are a couple of places here in the USA that do it.
The MXV was a reasonably priced tire until it went "off production" and into the Michelin Classic department and low volume. Price skyrocketed!
Porta-Walls are an option: http://www.portawalls.com/index.html  Though I don't think they are as good for long term use as a true tire.

Portawalls are glued-on whitewalls typically of miserable quality.  Www.dbtires.com in South Carolina vulcanizes on the whitewalls on standard brands of radial tires.  They will also buff off the molded-on tire lettering for a really clean look.  It looks like they have 195-75-R14 Michelin X and Cooper tires in our Pagoda size for about $200 each. 

[Russell]

Thanks for the feedback Russell.  Your choice of the 20mm wide white wall strip makes sense.  Hopefully it looks like it "belongs" on the tyre, (as opposed to having been added to the tyre).

i hope so too, they have been delivered now so i will get a chance next week to go check what they look like off the car. there are two processes, one is like a stick on whitewall and the other involved vulcanising (welding) the whitewall to the tyre but you can only do that i am led to believe on brand new tyres. i think it is something to do with you then removing the film or something and the rubber needs to be fresh. The outfit i have bought them from is a top supplier so i am expecting good results. fingers crossed

[Drewtee]

Russell,

did you manage to take a picture of your tyres and are you happy with them?

I am also looking for Michelin whitewalls so will likely go to Hans recommendation

Andy