Windshield washer tubing routing

[KUMARB]

I am having trouble routing the plastic tube from the nozzle into the driverside footwell so that I can take it out through a firewall opening to connect to the discharge side of the washer pump. Could anyone help, please?

When I took out the old tube, I did not pay much attention to how it was routed. Now, I am running a new tube. From nozzle, it goes into a round grommetted hole on the exterior metal skin inside the fresh air intake opening, and then, how does it get into the driverside footwell?

Thanks.

[Tomnistuff]

I still have to reinstall mine, but when I took it apart, I photographed the routing.  Here are the only two photos I took showing the routing.  The first is in the engine compartment.  The second shows the hose routed through the heater core compartment under the cowl flapper door and then past the flapper door into the air scoop and above the flapper door.  From there, it goes to the squirter located on the top of the air scoop.  I hope it is enough to help you.  My car is being painted so I can't verify, but I don't think the hose goes into the driver's footwell.  I think it goes into the heater compartment beside a bulkhead that separates the heater compartment from the driver's footwell.  The main harness (first photo) goes into the driver's footwell, but the hose entering the passenger compartment just beside the harness enters to the left of the interior bulkhead.  It's possible I'm missing a photo between the two that are shown here.  There may be an intermediate routing between the two photos.  Those grommets in the two photos don't look like the same grommet.  Maybe someone else can verify.
Tom Kizer

[Tomnistuff]

I think I found the missing link, but am not positive.  The attached photo, taken looking upward inside the driver's footwell, shows in red where the hose enters the driver's footwell and then goes upward and passes through the grommet in the front wall of the heater compartment, not visible in this photo but visible in the second photo of the previous post.
Tom Kizer

[KUMARB]

Thank you, Tom Kizer, for sending me those pictures. I wish I had been a little more careful when pulling out the old tubing.

If the tube is routed through a hole in the heater chamber as your third picture suggests, I am in a heap of trouble. I have reconditioned the heater core, the blower motor and the ducts, they are all in place. I dare not remove them again, washer or no washer. Probably, I will have to find another way of running the tube.

Thanks.

[Tomnistuff]

I cannot guarantee until I go look at my car next week, but I think if you remove the scoop, then the upper grommet for the washer hose in the second of three photos, you can probably see the lower grommet in the front of the heater chamber, through the upper hole.  According to the placement of the water inlet and outlet holes in the firewall, the heater core is lower and farther inboard.  I suspect that you could remove the two grommets, insert a coathanger wire through the upper hole, then straight through the lower hole, clamp the wire around the end of the hose and pull it through the chamber and both holes without being concerned about the heater core, which is farther to the right and lower.  The grommets can then be installed from the two exposed ends of the hose.  Finally fish it through the firewall hole at the lower end and attach it to the spray nozzle at the upper end.  Reinstall the scoop and you are done.  It might be even easier if you disconnect the pivots of the flapper door of the scoop.

Anyway, don't give up.  Good luck.

Tom Kizer

[IXLR8]

Tom is correct.

You do NOT need to rermove the heater core, but you will need to remove the fresh air intake grille on the cowl.  You will need the grille removed so that you can route the hose through the two grommets as well as routing it through the retaining clips on the underside of the cowl.

Good luck!


the other Joe

[KUMARB]

Thanks for your help. I have cowl and grille removed, and the fresh air damper loosened. The top hole in the cowl space is obvious. It is the lower hole which I can't find. I will try again. This time, I will remove damper and air filter as well to have a better view.

[Tomnistuff]

Not having my car handy, I forgot the air filter.  And removing the damper (flapper door?) will allow access to the inside of the compartment, I think.  Seeing it and accessing it are two different things.  You really need to be standing in the engine compartment or leaning through where the windshield is.  Having arms 6 feet long would help.  Good Luck.
Tom Kizer

[66andBlue]

..... This time, I will remove damper and air filter as well to have a better view.

The view from above may not help you much.
You need to lie flat on your back on the cabin floor (driver side) looking up on the firewall. You should see the tubing coming in through the firewall on the right side of the steering column - right and left in the direction you are looking!  See attached photo. Route the tubing above the support strut for the pedals to the left (center of car), then reach up with your left hand and search for the hole by touch and feel on the cowl wall - you cannot see it from below! There is only one hole there. It is not one of the holes on the firewall where the tachometer and speedometer cables come in.
Make sure you have grommets with the correct ID to match the OD of the tubing that you are using. You do not want rain water come through the cowl wall into the cabin.

[KUMARB]

Thanks, 66andblue, for the pictures.  Yes, I have been on my back on the driverside footwell floor poking and prodding to get into the cowl space with no success. Your pictures are very helpful and pinpoint the area where to look for the opening to run the tube through.. Thanks again.

[66andBlue]

Rather than feeding the tubing from the cabin to the cowl and having to feel for the hole that you cannot see you can also go the reverse way.
Should be easier since you can see the hole in the cowl wall from above - see my second photo.

[KUMARB]

Thanks a bunch for your advice and the pictures. They were extremely helpful. I did it this weekend with relative ease.

The lower hole in cowl space is hard to get to from the underside of the dash. It is not visible from outside either, I had to use a small mirror and a penlight to see it. But it is easily accessible from outside though once the cowl, the fresh air damper and the filter are removed. The new hose is braided plastic tube, abouit 8mm outside dia. I bought the grommets from Lowe's, two for $1.00, 5/8"ODx5/16"ID; they were just right for the holes and the hose. Everything looks good, and nozzle squirts water now.

I have a few quirks to take care of, a few adjustments to be made, since I changed the washer pump too. I could not find a replacement pump, I had to use a 380SL pump which is too strong for my 280SL.

Thanks again.

[Tomnistuff]

I recently bought a washer pump PN 115 869 02 21 from  www.germanclassicautoparts.com but have not yet received it.  I did verify that the photo of the pump that is on their web site is really what they are selling.  It is not exactly the same part number that is specified for my car by the EPC but the pump looks exactly the same as the sketch and other original photos I've seen, including the CAD plated bracket and the round pin terminals that fit the 230SL connector, not the flat blade electrical terminals.  Their price is one-half to one-third of what I've seen everywhere else.  Here's the photo from their site.

Tom Kizer

[KUMARB]

Tom, thank you for sharing the website. The washer pump looks alomist like the original. I would like to buy one too.  Did you have had any previous experience dealing with this website people?

I tried to repair my old frozen washer pump and found out it was not meant to be repaired. Washer pump for earlier 450SL looked very similar but had flat blade connectors. Washer pump for 380SL looked different but had round pins. I picked 380SL pump and somehow mounted it in my car, but I am not too happy about it.

Would you please let me know when you receive the washer pump from these people and how it worked in your car.

Thanks,

[Tomnistuff]

I got the pump today.  I`ve compared it to the photo and think that it is the same one as in the photo.  Even the orientation of the part number tag is the same.  I hope, for your sake, they have others the same.  I can`t try it on my car, since my car is in the paint shop, completely stripped to bare sheet metal.

I`ve never dealt with them before, but they were extremely responsive and even ignored their "$50 minimum order size for international orders", when I questioned it by email.  They accepted PayPal, packaged it well and shipped via USPS immediately.

Tom Kizer

[KUMARB]

Thanks, Tom Kizer. I took your advice and ordered a washer pump and a few 4-pin and 6-pin connectors from this vendor. They arrived in time and were neatly packageed. The vendor is very prompt and responsive like you said. Somehow, the parts looked,to me, nicely cleaned up used parts. So, I asked him. And he indicadted that they were new parts.

I tested the new pump, it works fine. There are two holes on the metal base of the washer pump for mounting with screws. The two holes on the metal base align with the two screw holes on the mounting bracket of the car. The distance between two holes on the new pump is shorter than the one on the original pump. Thus, you can use only one screw to mount the new pump rather than two screws. This may not be a big problem, one screw might just do the job.

Thanks.

[Tomnistuff]

Hi KUMARB,

When I disassembled my car for restoration, the pump (not the original type) was mounted on the fender apron near the relay mounting bracket where it is supposed to be mounted.  The first photo shows the pump mounted on the fender apron and the relay bracket with the two holes where it is supposed to be mounted.  The holes in that pump are too far apart to use the correct relay bracket holes.  The second photo (from someone here) shows an original 280SL pump and location.  The third photo (also from someone here) shows an original 230SL pump and location.  I don`t understand the bracketry and mounting of the last photo - the 230SL.  Can someone explain it?

Because of your last post, I compared my old pump bracket holes to the new pump bracket holes.  The holes in the new pump bracket are much closer together than on the old pump.  Because my car is at the body restorer`s shop, I cannot measure the holes in the relay bracket, so I don`t know if my new pump will fit.  If it does, it will look like the second photo (a new 280SL).  My car is a 1967 230SL, so my final pump mounting location may not be correct.

Is there anyone out there who can clarify the 230SL / 250SL / 280SL washer pumps and mounting configuration?  If yes, maybe it should be put in the Technical Manual.

Tom Kizer

[66andBlue]

Tom,
I believe your mounting holes have the correct spread for the original 230SL pump.
Here are two photos showing my pump before and after restoration.
Let me know if you need a higher resolution photo and I'll email it.

[KUMARB]

The washer pump in mine is mouted on the relay bracket too with motor pointng toward the driver.

[KUMARB]

Tom Kizer, thanks for your help.

In your picture, the washer pump is mounted in a very unusual way in your car. It should have been mounted on the relay bracket of the car.

The two screw holes on the relay bracket of the car are 1-3/16" apart. The two holes on the metal base of the new washer pump are a little narrower and would not fit on the relay bracket. The metal base on the pump is sandwiched between the pump and the motor, and is secured by four screws on the new pump, and four thin bolts on the original pump. I swaped the metal base from the old pump to the new pump.  I had to enlarge the four holes on the old metal base slightly for securing screws to go through. Now, I am able to mount my new pump on the relay bracket.

I hope this helps.

[Tomnistuff]

I just measured the hole spacing on the new pump (the ones you said are a little narrower).  You are right.  The spacing is exactly 23 mm (29/32 inch).  The 1 3/16 inch of the relay bracket calculates to 30 mm.  So you are right in that the new pump bracket will not fit the relay bracket without modification.  My old (really large) pump bracket was actually too wide and too long to fit the relay bracket.  That's apparently why it was mounted to the engine side of the fender well.  Since the new pump bracket is wide enough to cover the holes in the relay bracket but the holes in it don't line up, I'll probably just slot the pump bracket holes all the way to the outside edge of the pump bracket and use the relay bracket holes as they are.  If I have to use some slightly larger than normal washers under the screw heads, it probably won't be too noticeable.  Each screw will only be 3 1/2 mm off the center of the original hole in the pump bracket. (30 - 23)/2 = 3.5 .
I have often used the phrase: I may be a purist, but I am not to the point of being a masochist !
Tom Kizer
PS  I bought five feet of 3/16" ID clear vinyl windshield washer hose at a hardware store this afternoon for $0.65 .  Boy this restoration is expensive!