Starter

[Sphe]

A few questions...
Is the "starter" the same as the starter motor?
Where is the starter located?
How much does it cost to get a starter rebuilt?
How much is a new one, and where could I get it?
Also, if i get it rebuilt, do I have to ask anything specific? (I heard a certain type of solenoid doesn't work...)
Thanks guys! Restoration is comin along slowly! The goal for the end of the summer is to get the car moving on its own power... then we have to restore the brakes. he he.

[knirk]

I take it that your starter motor dosn't work. It is located on the lower right side of the engine and is accessible from below.

Before you think about a rebuild I reccommend you to check things like:
- Is the battery charge OK?
- Do you here a click when turning the ignition?
- Remove and check the electrical connections for poor contact.
Give us an update.

Per G. Birkeland
69 280 sl aut 834
Norway

[mdsalemi]

Sphe,

Nearly any auto electric shop ( I don't know where you are located so I don't know if you have such things) can rebuild any starter; they have the sources for all the parts.  Expect to pay anywhere from about $60 US to $120 US to have yours rebuilt.

I made a post recently about the solenoid; mine had been replaced as part of the rebuild however it was not a Bosch but rather an aftermarket.  The problem was it didn't work IN THE CAR; on the bench it worked and tested fine.  After checking it out, replacing, testing in the car, and then doing it all over again did we discover the problem.  An OEM Bosch unit did the trick.  Bottom line is ask for all Bosch OEM parts from your rebuilder.

Alternatively, you can simply "exchange" your starter at a Bosch dealer for a rebuilt one, and give them your old one in exchange.  Just check with many foreign auto parts stores who deal in Bosch or check any of the MB suppliers in the links section.


Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored

[ja17]

Hello Sphe,
Access to the starter bolts can be improved by removing the cover on the transmission tunnel inside the car (right side). You will have to spend some time under the car also.

As mentioned there are lots of options for starter repair or replacement.

After about 1968 Mercedes most Mercedes engins went from a .9 horse power starter to a 1.3 horsepower starter. Earlier cars can be upgraded with these "heavier duty starters". They bolt right up.

Most common Mercedes sedans starters of the era are the same as the starter in your W113.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[Sphe]

THE STARTER WORKS!!!! And the engine turns over!!! it helps when you have good jumper cables...

[66andBlue]

quote:Originally posted by ja17

 ..... After about 1968 Mercedes most Mercedes engins went from a .9 horse power starter to a 1.3 horsepower starter. Earlier cars can be upgraded with these "heavier duty starters". They bolt right up. ....

Hello Joe,
do you have a Bosch part number for the heavy duty starter? I had my alternator and starter checked by a local shop and the diagnosis was that the alternator is fine but the starter should be refurbished. Estimate is about $125 - $135.
For that I could get a starter remanufactured by Bosch from several vendors. All of them show as a model SR 059X, p/n F5000-11364. Is this the 0.9 hp or the stronger one?
Some vendors mention that a stronger "HD model" SR 459X, p/n F5000-25882 is available and would fit. Is that correct??
Thanks!

Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic

[Naj ✝︎]

Hello Alfred,

The Bosch part # for a new 1.5KW starter is 0 001 314 018 and 0 986 010 850 for an exchange one.
The US part numbering system seems to be different...
Hopefully, a dealer can cross refer.


naj

68 280SL

[66andBlue]

Hello Naj,
thanks for the numbers. I'll call around next week to find one.
If I go with a different (stronger) starter motor - which I assume has the correct solenoid attached - do I need to change anything else, relay, etc ??

Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic

[al_lieffring]

There is no starter relay on a 230sl. On an automatic there is a neutral/reverse switch on the firewall that is connected by a cable to the shift linkage. The switch rarely fails but the linkage cable can break leaving the starter inoperable. A good clue is the reverse lights won't work either.

The replacement starter will have a stud to mount the battery cable and two screw attachments for wires. The smaller one for the purple wire is the only one that is used on a 230. (the second larger one is for the transistorised ignition on later models)

Al

113-042-10-014715
built 11 Jan 66
904/396 blue, Ivory Tex
condition- rust bucket

[Naj ✝︎]

Hi, Alfred,
Al is right, the starter swaps one for one. One difference is that on the old starter, both the mounting bolt holes are threaded while on the latter one, one is drilled thru and you will need an extra 10mm nut.

Also, the second small terminal on the starter that Al mentioned is live while cranking. It can be used to bypass the ballast resistor on the ignition to give a higher voltage spark for a much quicker start. (just run an extra wire from the terminal on the starter to the coil side of the ballast resistor. magic!!)

68 280SL

[66andBlue]

After getting much run around from the usual warehouse vendors I have finally received useful answers through the Bosch Customer Service (http://www.boschautoparts.com/Global/Contact).
The model number for a remanufactured starter is "SR 59X" and it is the the stronger 1.5 kW model.  Contrary to some vendor info the "SR 459X" is not a suitable replacement. Apparently Bosch is trying for about a year now to correct this misinformation.
Naj, your part numbers are good numbers but, I was told, are not used here by Bosch-USA.  
Me running an extra wire from X to Z?? No way! [:0]
I am still in a remedial class and haven't even made into to Electronics 101!  

Thanks everyone for the valuable input!

Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic

[Naj ✝︎]

Alfred

 

quote:Me running an extra wire from X to Z?? No way!  
I am still in a remedial class and haven't even made into to Electronics 101!

Hey, this is electrics 101 - no 'onics' in it  

naj

p.s: meet me at one of the nite stops on the Route 66. i'll do it for you [:p]

68 280SL

[J. Huber]

A couple sideliners, 1. is it possible to see what type/model of starter is in the car from crawling underneath or something. (no lift)... 2. For a long time I had a smallish wire that led somewhere around and under the engine. The visible end terminated around the distributer area but wasn't attached to anything. My most recent mechanic said it was not original and took it out completely. Do ya suppose that was an earlier attempt at "the Naj Method"? Fortunately, I have not needed it since then.

James
63 230SL

[Naj ✝︎]

James,
1.The Bosch number you need is stamped on the main barrel/body of the starter. May be able to read it from under the car or r/h rear below exhaust in engine bay.

Download Attachment: Starter04.JPG
52.34 KB

2. Was there a relay with the wire(s) that was removed?

naj

68 280SL

[J. Huber]

Hey Naj. The wire was just a wire -- I believe it was brown plastic coated -- not big. The end was just exposed wire.

And, I just crawled under to have a look. 2 observations: I need to go on a diet and I have more leaks than the CIA... Anyway, I found some numbers on the starter -- all I could make out was .08/12 R17 just under the Bosch label. Of course, I can't read too well for long while holding my breath...

James
63 230SL

[66andBlue]

quote:Originally posted by naj

Hey, this is electrics 101 - no 'onics' in it  

Naj, now you know why I am still in a remedial group  :oops: ,
but "electrical - electronics", what is the difference,  I thought all require electrons (and positrons), or not?
Anyway, when will you be in Springfield, Missouri? Perhaps we can meet up - but without my Pagoda, she is still at the beauty parlor     .

Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic

[George Davis]

"Electrics" is what ya got in most of yer Pagoda, like lights an' wires.  "Electronics" is what ya got in yer Becker radio an' yer computer, transistifiers an' them flat things with solder squigglies all over.  HTH.

George Davis
'69 280 SL Euro manual

[Naj ✝︎]

Alfred,

 

quote:Anyway, when will you be in Springfield, Missouri? Perhaps we can meet up - but without my Pagoda, she is still at the beauty parlor .

Sept. 19th, Tuesday: St. Louis to Springfield, Mo. on I-44. Museums, points-of-interest en route, possible stops in Rolla, Lebanon. Dinner and overnight in Springfield, MO.

Sept. 20th, Wednesday: Springfield to Tulsa, Okla. on Rt. 66.  Dinner arranged by the new Eastern Oklahoma Section at Post Oak Lodge, then overnight in Tulsa, OK


naj

68 280SL

[enochbell]

George, hate to differ with you, but I must.

My Becker's all tubes.  I'm thinkin' that makes her 'lectric.  Ya think?

g

'64 230sl, fully sorted out...ooops, spoke too soon

[66andBlue]

Some good news for all you " 'lectronics" or " 'lectricals"  
A member of the German Pagoda group just posted a list of the current Bosch part numbers for the three Pagoda models in PDF format for downloading.
See: http://www.pagodentreff.de/diskussionsforum/t3070-bosch-ausruestungsliste.html
Rodd, is there a chance we can put these lists somewhere in our forum for direct downloading ?

Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic

[Naj ✝︎]

Alfred
 

quote:Some good news for all you " 'lectronics" or " 'lectricals"

For those of us without German 101, give us a clue on how to download this file....

naj

68 280SL

[waltklatt]

Naj,
Looks like one has to log in to the website to download the .pdf file of the 'lectrics.
Walter Klatt
1967 220SL-diesel
1963 230SL-gas

[rwmastel]

quote:Originally posted by 66andBlue

Rodd, is there a chance we can put these lists somewhere in our forum for direct downloading?

Alfred,

As "Forums Moderator", I can manage the forum.  That is, add/delete/change/move messages and threads.  Our great WebMaster Peter will have to find a place to store a file and provide a link to it.

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[66andBlue]

quote:
For those of us without German 101, give us a clue on how to download this file....

Hey Naj,
this is Deutsch 101  
Send me your email address and I'll email you the PDF files. How is that for a remedial??

Anyone else who wants the Bosch list, just email and I'll send them.

Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic

[Naj ✝︎]

Thanks Alfred,
Email on its way  :|

naj

68 280SL