Taillight question

[Jkalplus1]

Gents,

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/mercedes-230sl-113-111-220se-250se-taillight-lens-280sl-TAIL-LIGHT-LENS-/221038133630?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3376e6417e

It seems to me these would work on my 64 230 SL, but the seller's compatibility engine contradicts his ad, and says they would not work on a 64 230 SL, but would work on a 280SL.  Doesn't make sense to me.  Opinions?

Thanks

[IXLR8]

Hi--

These DO apply to the 230SL as they are all red with the white back up bar.

The 290SL uses a lens with a yellow turn signal segment in the outside corner.


Seal these lenses into your chrome frames with a good coating, maybe even a double dap, of epoxy to keep the water out of the capsule.


the other Joe

[Jkalplus1]

Thanks for the reply, other Joe.  My Dad (used to be in this forum) did a complete, frame-off rotisserie restoration and mechanical overhaul on this Euro 64 230SL.  Lots of money invested, but for some reason he persisted in thinking it was a 66.  Don't know why, but in any event, from my newbie (I inherited the car when he died) perspective, even if it were a 66, the lenses would still be all red, and not amber and red like the ones currently on the car.

I am trying to figure out which ones (on eBay) are OEM, and which ones are repro.  Niemoller sells the lenses for 160 euro each, but I am not sure if they are repro.  I am not that fussed about it, but if I have to sell the car I want to make sure I have all the facts for the prospective new owner.

Cheers,
J

[66andBlue]

"J",
all the individual red/red lenses you see advertised are reproductions. Mercedes never sold these lenses individually they were always part of the complete tail lamp assembly. That is, the lens and the reflector were one piece and the chromed frame was pressed (melted?) into the lens/reflector combo. The bulb carrier was also part of the complete assembly together with a rubber seal. NOS lamps show up sometimes on eBay, and if really "new old stock", can go as high as $1000 each!    
The later amber/red tail lamps are a different design, the parts are individual and a replacement lens is sandwiched internally between the frame and the reflector.
The repro lenses are very well made and at first glance difficult to distinguish from real ones. Main difference is that they are all cast from clear plastic first and then the surface is dyed red. So, any strong solvent or harsh polishing will take the color off eventually.  Sealing these lenses into the frame - from the outside for a better fit - is not trivial, the people that make them in Germany recommend a silicone glue that is used to seal aquariums. Most people put them inside between the frame and the reflector but the fit can be poor and the gaps that need to be filled with glue can be wide especially if the frame is bent a little.
Don't pay too much for them, the best price that I found is this one: http://www.ebay.de/itm/180893408075
He also sells new individual reflectors - just bought some from him and they are nice too.

[114015]

My Dad (used to be in this forum)  ...

Hello "J" (Jim, Joseph, John, Jonathan, etc.),


1) What was your father's real name and forum name? Perhaps we remember him well here. 

2) See our Wiki, and you'll understand all the changes among the taillights.

http://www.sl113.org/wiki/Electrical/TailLights

3) The reproductions available today are the lenses only (as indicated in your ebay link); full taillight lenses (with chrome frame and mirror) are NLA for a while since the chrome frames (= late style, identical to the early style molded-in chrome frames) are also NLA or hard to come by lately.

4) Today's reproductions are of good quality as Alfred already indicated. Since they are sprayed red (with taillight dye) from behind (inside), there is not much danger that you may polish the color off.

5) But what about your old original taillights? Are they still there? If so, clean them up thoroughly. You will be amazed how much they turn out if you give them a comprehensive clean up with an old (or new) toothbrush and simple dishwasher detergent.
Afterwards give the outside of the lens a good polish with a little chrome polish - until they look like new.

These lenses nearly never age or deteriorate or show signs of fading color! After a thorough polish the lens usually comes out like new.
There is only one drawback ... cracks! Those are much harder to repair.

6) Finally, be a bit careful with the mirror part itself. Can be taken off the taillight assembly pretty easily (after removal of the main black rubber seal) but the plated surface is sensitive to finger prints (touching), detergent and any sort of polishing. The less treatment, the better. Best way is to only rinse them with clear water.

Good luck!

Achim

[Jkalplus1]

1) What was your father's real name and forum name? Perhaps we remember him well here. 

He left me large binders of printed information from this W113.org forum.  I only see one instance of him being logged in (under his real name "Christian Phaneuf") on Aug 7th, 2002.  Just when he bought the car and was in the early stages of restoring it.  Naturally, when I joined the forum I tried to see his posts, but could not find any.  Perhaps posts and users get deleted when they are inactive for too long?  He died in 2008.

5) But what about your old original taillights? Are they still there? If so, clean them up thoroughly. You will be amazed how much they turn out if you give them a comprehensive clean up with an old (or new) toothbrush and simple dishwasher detergent.

They are the wrong type (amber turn signal), and one of them has a slight crack.  It is not an emergency, but I would like to make the car as correct as possible.  I do have some experience polishing plastics, etc...but really the car is fantastic...it just has a few little things I want to get right...

It's funny, I have been "into" antique cars (magazine subscriptions) for fifteen years or more, never owning one (money, young children).  When my father got bitten by the bug, I did tell him to splurge and buy the outrageously expensive fully restored 50 000$ 230SL.  He thought it was way too expensive, so he got the 17 000$ nice "driver", and thought he would slowly do the "little things" that need done.

That was not knowing him well, and nothing was good enough, it had to be perfect.  It ended up costing him tens of thousands more, years of research and work, countless hours of disgusting stripping the whole body to save on bodyshop work, and now I am the one who benefits from it!  I do think he actually enjoyed the restoration process itself, seeing the ugly duckling turn into a magnificent roadster!  As I read somewhere, the best 90 000$ car 30 000$ can buy!

All I have to do is re-assemble the hardtop.  It is fully restored too, but not re-assembled.  Not that I think I will be using it much.  This car has never seen rain, and never will during my tenure.  It has always been in a heated, de-humidified garage, and will stay that way, with little trips to meets and car shows and Sunday drives until it gets to its next owner.

I sent an eMail to register the car in the Registry, and my real name is Jerome.  Nice joining you all, have a great night!

[Garry]

If youa re getting rid of the amber tail lights then I would be interested as we need the orange turn signals here in Australia and I have to fix mine.

PM me if interested

Garry

[114015]

They are the wrong type (amber turn signal), and one of them has a slight crack. ...

Jerome, Garry,

Please make sure you are talking about the same type of taillights - the early ones for your 230ies I hope.

I hardly believe Jerome's car has the early style taillights with amber turn signals; those were delivered to Italy and Australia only (later also to UK and Austria ...?) - since his car is of German delivery ...
A few pics or J's confirmation after reading the relevant WIKI section may help. It's much more likely his father replaced the early ones by the common late-style 280 taillights during the nut-and-bolt restoration.

It's amazing but the early-style-all-red-taillights-with-amber-turn-signal-section were available from the Daimler factory until very recently. They sold out only about 2 years ago - and were pretty cheap!! However, when I ordered them in Jan 2011 they were just NLA.
Thus, Garry, it makes really sense to call the different MB dealers in AUS to see whether they may have a correct set (or single unit) in stock.

Good luck!

Achim
(taillightcollector with used red/amber taillight set)

[ctm14]

Very Interesting Achim

  I have an Italian 69 280 with the old style red with small amber ends for the turn indicatror.  The driver side one is not in as good condition as the passenger.  Gary if you decide to call around Australia and come across a supply I would be interested.  I am in Souther California so these would be pretty expensive calls for me.

Chris

[Garry]

I will do a check around but I am in the dead centre of Australia at the moment at Uluru, or Eyres Rock as it was called and will not be home for a week or so.

Garry