Author Topic: Soft Top Release Latch--big trouble. (Read 28340 times)

mdsalemi · « **on:** July 30, 2012, 12:12:40 »

Saturday night I put my car on a show field, put the soft top up, and covered the car for display on Sunday. As per usual, I had to slam the rear of the soft top down so that the rear could latch.

Lo and behold Sunday morning when I go to release the soft top in the multi step procedure to completely lower the top, the release behind the driver's seat was flopping around and can turn nearly 360 degrees. It is NOT attached to anything any more.

Thankfully, Cleveland expert Ted Gottfried was in attendance, and between some phone consultations, and some screwdrivers, we were able to a) pop the rear latch for the soft top; b) pop the passenger side of the tonneau/soft top compartment cover. However we were not able to release the driver's side of the soft top cover.

Without all three released I can't get the top up and out of the way of its storage compartment, and the cover released to see what happened. Something broke, or something fell off.

Any ideas on how to release the driver's side of the soft top cover? We tried various tools for over an hour, trying to catch some latch but had no luck. Right now the car has got a towel stuck in the right side to prevent the storage compartment from accidentally re-latching, and the rear of the soft top is released and not latched.

rmmchl · « **Reply #1 on:** July 30, 2012, 18:17:39 »

michael. i accidentally shut my soft top lid without the handle on, while installing my carpet to that section. After 2 days of (no luck) the only thing that saved me was simply putting the handle back on, even without it being bolted on. I know you said yours turns 360 degrees. Maybe the bolt to hold the handle on broke. It is inside the compartment. Please try to push the handle all the way in while turning it. It might release. Mine did. I tried the "in the trunk release way to release the compartment latch" That technique only released the passenger side on mine. It would not release the drivers side. Without using that handle, i just don't know of a way. That mechanism is so strong, an instrument like a screwdriver just won't force it to release. With the chrome caps on there , it's hard to do anything with this mechanism. I'm sorry. I know what you are going through.

thelews · « **Reply #2 on:** July 30, 2012, 18:37:39 »

At least it would match your car!

thelews · « **Reply #3 on:** July 30, 2012, 19:36:54 »

Whatever method you try, have someone push down on the lid while you're trying to release it so that you relieve pressure on the latch enabling it to release more easily.

Cees Klumper · « **Reply #4 on:** July 30, 2012, 20:09:08 »

I don't have my car here with me to check, but can't you take off the chrome caps at the front ends and would that perhaps afford some relevant access to pry things loose?

rmmchl · « **Reply #5 on:** July 30, 2012, 21:32:58 »

The chrome caps can't be taken off unless the lid is open. There are 2 small screws that are accessed with the top lid open. This brings up what could be a helpful thread. Maybe we all should not put the 2 little screws on. Just the one big screw. This would allow us to access the lid mechanism by being able to remove the chrome caps.

Jordan · « **Reply #6 on:** July 30, 2012, 22:08:29 »

Is there not an access to the release lever inside the trunk?

Garry · « **Reply #7 on:** July 30, 2012, 22:12:32 »

There is an hole just below the fitting accessed through the trunk.

see
http://www.sl113.org/wiki/Tops/SoftTop#BrokenHandle

rmmchl · « **Reply #8 on:** July 30, 2012, 22:14:38 »

Michael, I have an idea. First unsrew the large screw on the chrome cap on the one side. Then take a dremel tool and cut the other side of the chrome cap where the other 2 screws are attached. You can then lift off the chrome cap. You will then have access to see what is broken, and you should be able to release the lid. You can buy another chrome cap used for around $75.00 -I think this could be a solution to this problem

mdsalemi · « **Reply #9 on:** July 30, 2012, 22:19:53 »

Garry, Jordan--we were able to slide the mechanism to the driver's (L) side, and were able to first pop the rear of the soft top latch, then the R side of the cover.

This bolt mechanism is all the way to the left, and we were not able to budge the L side of the cover.

I took the car to my mechanic today; they were just working on a similar assembly so the issue is fresh. Their body guy is pretty resourceful, too.

How does that handle/latch hold on? Though the lighting was not great (any my older eyes...) I was not able to find a set screw. How is that affixed to the mechanism? Splined like a window winder or something else?

I think if we get the cover open, the damage will be easy to assess and replace or repair. Just one latch needs to be released.

Might there be an access hole behind the carpet?

(cutting ANY metal is a last resort...and cutting the chrome cap is the very last resort. $75 maybe, but add $200 for a nice chrome plate job...

)

66andBlue · « **Reply #10 on:** July 30, 2012, 22:23:00 »

Michael,
John L's pry bar may not be far off a workable solution.
Here are photos showing what you are dealing with.
You wrote the release behind the driver's seat was flopping around and can turn nearly 360 degrees. That means that the lever to which the cable wire (on the bottom) and the push rod (on top) are attached came loose and now the release lever can freely inside the bracket. See parts photo.
To get access to the push lever that needs to be moved towards the rear of the car you need to do the following:
1. Take the wheel well cover off. It may be a bit more tricky with the chrome cap on (which you cannot remove since the screws are on the back side) but it can be done.
2. From the inside punch out the rubber plug to get access to the compartment.
3. Use a pry bar - something like the one shown in the staged photo - to wedge between the push bar and the lever and push while someone presses the lid down as John wrote.
No guarantee - but it could work!

rmmchl · « **Reply #11 on:** July 30, 2012, 22:24:28 »

handle is connected with one washer and bolt

Garry · « **Reply #12 on:** July 30, 2012, 22:27:00 »

The LH cars may be a bit different to the RH cars, but without my car here, my recollection was that the handle released a hook type lever on the (RHD) passenger side at the same time through a cable releasing the centre latch and then the cable went on to the the right hook latch.

Is it only the handle that has disengaged and if so then the release will probably have to be via the cable to both left and right from the access hole.

(added from Alfreds pix's) the second access hole trick I see.

I am going out to my car later today so will have a look.

Garry

enochbell · « **Reply #13 on:** July 30, 2012, 22:36:11 »

http://www.sls-hh-shop.de/index.php/cat/c3_Mercedes-Benz-230SL-250SL-280SL-Pagoda--R113-W113-.html#cat_3115

Wish I could help, maybe you can figure something out from this exploded view.

g

bogeyman · « **Reply #14 on:** July 30, 2012, 23:24:56 »

Michael:
The handle is attached to a rod that is threaded on the far end for the nut and washers to attach it to the bracket.
Just before the threads are 2 flat spots on opposite sides of the rod - these thread through the lever that actuates the cable (on the bottom) to actuate the middle soft top release and the right side lid release.
The top of that lever actuates the left side release via an arm. Alfred's first pic shows it best.
One of two things has happened to yours, either the rod has rounded off the flat spots and is turning freely (unlikely) or the nut has come loose and your handle/rod has disengaged from the lever (likely).
It would take a great deal of force to actuate the lever from below with a pry bar of some sort. I doubt it is possible.
When the handle/rod disengages from the lever, it moves a small amount, far enough so you cannot reengage it simply by pushing in on the handle, but if you can gain access from the wheel well below as Alfred suggested, I think you should be able to move it enough to work the handle back into position and release the lock.

I took mine apart and this is the only way I can see to get it released. I tried to move the cable from the center position but I couldn't get the lever to move at all that way.

Good luck.

rmmchl · « **Reply #15 on:** July 30, 2012, 23:40:27 »

the handle will work without the nut being attached. I know this to be a fact. Before any drastic steps , please try to push the handle in and engage the stem and see if it turns to release the lid. I believe the other best option is cutting off the cap.

Benz Dr. · « **Reply #16 on:** July 31, 2012, 02:49:05 »

The LT side release is all done by linkages while the center and Rt side are released by the cable. If the cable breaks ( which is fairly common ) the LT side will release but not the center or RT side as long as the handle is connected.

We have been able to open the LT side with a longer bar that was bent in just the right way. I found that studying the latch on my own car gave me the right dimensions for my release bar we made. Not sure what we did with it since it was several years ago but it worked.

mbzse · « **Reply #17 on:** July 31, 2012, 06:21:51 »

Quote from: Garry

.../....my recollection was that the handle released a hook type lever on the (RHD) passenger side at the same time through a cable releasing the centre latch and then the cable went on to the the right hook latch. Is it only the handle that has disengaged and if so then the release will probably have to be via the cable to both left and right from the access hole..../...

Here is a web film clip, showing a self-made metal bar tool for the soft top cover emergency opening, via the slits in the chrome covers on the B-pillars
http://www.beetle.homepage.t-online.de/deckel.mpg
/Hans in Sweden

.

mdsalemi · « **Reply #18 on:** July 31, 2012, 13:02:06 »

Hans, the video is encouraging--but unfortunately doesn't show enough detail; just that it can be done.

I hope that some of these tricks will work however.

66andBlue · « **Reply #19 on:** July 31, 2012, 16:36:01 »

Michael,
take a look at the fellows description on his homepage. I know you don't like to see a German text

but the photos tell the story.
Especially the one showing his tool. He writes that it does not need the kink in the middle, it can be straight, but the length is necessary.
http://www.beetle.homepage.t-online.de/Notoeffnung%20Verdeckkasten%20Mercedes%20Pagode%20W%20113.htm
I had trouble on my Mac opening the movie clip but he has two others in the AVI format:
http://www.beetle.homepage.t-online.de/schnapper1.avi
http://www.beetle.homepage.t-online.de/schnapper2.avi
Hope this helps.

thelews · « **Reply #20 on:** July 31, 2012, 16:53:40 »

could make one of those in 5 minutes, hardly needs to have a nice wooden handle. Good find.

66andBlue · « **Reply #21 on:** July 31, 2012, 16:59:59 »

Indeed, he writes that the wooden ball is only to protect the palm.
Since my 280SL is sitting 75% finished in my garage I could check this out and I believe it will work as shown.
But it looks to me that the 90 degree bent at the end cannot be longer then indicated.

thelews · « **Reply #22 on:** July 31, 2012, 17:24:25 »

Quote from: 66andBlue on July 31, 2012, 16:59:59

But it looks to me that the 90 degree bent at the end cannot be longer then indicated.

The diameter of the rod and the length of the internal bend are the critical measurements. The rest is personal.

mdsalemi · « **Reply #23 on:** July 31, 2012, 19:51:13 »

This may do the trick. Not a good find--really an excellent find!

Whoa, not so fast...I think below that photo of the tool, and the tool in position, there are disparaging remarks about the person who created, Mr. Know-It-All, and those people claim it is mathematically impossible to make it fit and work. Hmmm...

IXLR8 · « **Reply #24 on:** July 31, 2012, 21:54:00 »

Mike--

With the top out of the way, it seems like you should be able to go in through the trunk hinge opening and grab the latch piece (the moveable part) with, say, a bent coathanger and pull it loose.

the other Joe

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Author Topic: Soft Top Release Latch--big trouble. (Read 28340 times)

enochbell

IXLR8