The Myth of Superior German Engineering

[Alf]

Superior German engineering? I offer up 'Failsafe soft top mechanism' for your consideration. Ooops!

[jameshoward]

Superior German engineering? I offer up 'Failsafe soft top mechanism' for your consideration. Ooops!

Beat me to it. I still say they were drunk when they designed the soft top.

[jameshoward]

Well, consider the source!  A Rolls-Royce engineer.  Yeah, they came out with the "Merlin" in 1933, but it was vastly improved when Americanized by Packard; at least that's the general consensus.  Some years ago I spoke with a guy at Roush Industries here in Michigan that rebuilds both RR-Merlin and Packard Merlin engines, and they sometimes couldn't believe how much better the Packards were.  So?  What happened?  Where's Packard?  In the graveyard of long-gone automotive companies.  Takes more than good engineering to survive.

We can't go around letting Rolls Royce be slated, now can we? Whatever next.

The Merlin engine was derived in no small part from the RR R engine used to power the Supermarine S6 and S6B aircraft that finally won the Schneider Trophy in 1931. I don't recall there being any Packard-powered aircraft in any of those races. There was a Curtis powered US aircraft that won in 1925 it seems, but after that the Merlin's predecessor pretty much dominated.

Incidentally, the Schneider Trophy and the aircraft that finally won it outright (powered by the predecessor to the Merlin) is on display in the National Science Museum in London (free entry). The aero engines floor is well worth a look. I don't remember having seen any Packards, but there may be one at the back somewhere.

So it would seem that it does take more than good engineering to survive, given that RR aero engines are still in business (and British). Perhaps good breeding is a factor...

[mdsalemi]

I don't recall there being any Packard-powered aircraft in any of those races.

Nope, no Packard power back then.  As mentioned in an earlier post, RR could not produce in quantity, and came to the USA looking for production; this was prior to US involvement in the growing and soon to be world conflagration.  Henry Ford was too arrogant and political, and Packard stepped in. At the time, the US had no such engine of such great capability.  Realistically the Packard unit was a license-built engine most of which ended up on US planes.

When Packard re-engineered the Merlin, it became the V-1650.  Both engines are remarkable engineering efforts.  I've seen them up close on a building stand, and one can't help being astounded.  They are beautiful--and huge!

There's a good book, a bit hard to find (don't know where I found it, but I did...probably at a bargain table at Barnes & Noble!) called The Fall of the Packard Motor Car Company, by James Ward--and it covers some of their war time and military contracting exploits. A sad tale of a great marque, of which the RR licensed engine played just a bit part. A good read for those interested.

[Flyair]

I read again all the posts in this topic and must say that second reading was as enjoyable when I saw the threads for the first time.

Myth or not, I rather stay with my belief that my Pagoda is a truly superior car, even though I agree that we should speak about superior German  engineering using more and more often the past perfect.

Having said that, German engineering would most likely be not sufficient to generate such jewels as our lovely Pagodas without "external imput", and this input is named Paul Bracq, who as we know is French, and without Bela Barenyi, who was Hungarian. They have been essential not only because they designed the car, but especially because they were able to impose to their fellow German colleagues the specific form of the now iconic hardtop, without which our Pagodas would not be called as such today.

Long life to international cooperation  

[w113dude]

long life to international cooperation  

Right-on brother!

[mdsalemi]

German engineering would most likely be not sufficient to generate such jewels as our lovely Pagodas without "external imput", and this input is named Paul Bracq, who as we know is French, and without Bela Barenyi, who was Hungarian. They have been essential not only because they designed the car, but especially because they were able to impose the specific form of the now iconic hardtop, without which our Pagodas would not be called as such today.

For fun, you can see what this is all about.  Go to the US Patent Office search website here: http://www.uspto.gov/patents/process/search/index.jsp then go to the Patent Number Search engine component (middle of page or so), and plug in patent number 3169793.  Have fun with this nostalgia!  

[Jonny B]

Interesting designs indeed!

[enochbell]

Michael,

Thanks, interesting.  Are you saying Mercedes used this patent for the Pagoda?  Or did they just improve upon it.  Either way, that is one ugly duckling.  Looks like an amphibious Citroen.

Best,
Greg

[mdsalemi]

Are you saying Mercedes used this patent for the Pagoda?  Or did they just improve upon it. 

Well, as best as I know it, the idea was conceived by Barenyi, styled by Bracq, and then the suits filed the patent.  So the Pagoda came first, the patent as a consequence.  The patent drawings are conceptual, not specific.

[Flyair]

I am not really willing to revive the discussion, but couldn't help it when I recalled C111, unfortunately left at the concept stage. Beautiful body, gull doors and , by the way a Wankel engine.

And I am quite certain, the engineering was first class too