Author Topic: I need help. I don't know whether to sell car or push into ocean & sell parts  (Read 23576 times)

GGR

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The bad news is that one never recoup the money of a top restoration on these cars. Best deal on a Pagoda is to pay $45.000 for a car that costed $70.000 to restore. In your case, you already did a good part of the expense, but you're selling a project in boxes. You won't sell it much in that condition. Your best bet is to part it. But recouping part of the money is going to take time and work.

Hopefully, when you will be taking the parts out of the boxes, you will remember all the work and time that went through them and you will then decide to restore the car.

swampdog

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The bad news is that one never recoup the money of a top restoration on these cars. Best deal on a Pagoda is to pay $45.000 for a car that costed $70.000 to restore. In your case, you already did a good part of the expense, but you're selling a project in boxes. You won't sell it much in that condition. Your best bet is to part it. But recouping part of the money is going to take time and work.

Hopefully, when you will be taking the parts out of the boxes, you will remember all the work and time that went through them and you will then decide to restore the car.


yeah, that's what i think too.  If I have to catalog all the parts in order to sell the car then I may as well just sell the parts.  They're worth more than the car.  I'll just shove the rest into the ocean and all the other pagoda just got a little bit more unique.

Neil Thompson

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Garry, wise words as I'd expect from you.

Swampdog, the people walking past your garage aren't as likely to be as strong a bidder as these guys u've asked the question of! Why, why aren't you listening?

Neil
1964 230 SL RHD DB304 Horizon Blue
1957 190 SL RHD DB180 Silver
1988 R107 300 SL RHD DB199 Blue Black
1978 C123 230C 2dr Auto RHD Silver

swampdog

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Garry, wise words as I'd expect from you.

Swampdog, the people walking past your garage aren't as likely to be as strong a bidder as these guys u've asked the question of! Why, why aren't you listening?

Neil


It was never a matter of bidding.  Just fair market value.  I live in a waterfront neighborhood in southwest florida.  most of the snowbirds have million dollar homes with a big boat docked in the backyard.  All of which just sits there doing nothing for 10 months out of every year so that they have a winter vacation home.  The mercedes convertible would just be another toy in the garage for them.  like buying another jetski for the kids.

what I'm hearing is a fair market value around 10K.  that's just not even close to being worth the effort of having to unpack and inventory all the parts at one time.  I can call the junkman and have my garage empty in a day.  then I can take my time cleaning out the store room and attic.  it's a win-win.

GGR

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If your shell is not rotten, or has been repaired properly apart from that quarter panel it may be worth some money and interest someone restoring a rotten Pagoda.

Garry

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At best you may get $15k but now you have mentioned that it is near the beach and that should get alarm bells ringing given its been sitting 17 years.

But I am starting to think this whole post is a troll.

Garry
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Melbourne/ Kyneton, Brisbane. Australia
1969 MB 280SL 5 speed RHD SOLD.
1965 MB 230SL Auto RHD Lt Blue 334G, Top 350H, Tourist Delivery.
1972 MB 280CE Auto RHD 906G
2005 MB A200
2006 MB B200
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hauser

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You've sat on it this long why not finish what you started? 

kampala

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Something doesn't smell right.  I'm with Garry ... this might be just entertainment.

By now a few photos could have been posted ... and 4 offers would have been sent over by PM.  Well worth the price of admission to be able to post for sale as full member.   something's fishy in Florida.

250sl - later - manual
280sl - 1971 - Auto - LSD

JamesL

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As you can buy a running car in the US in the $20,000 bracket, have no work and know what is operative and what is not, where needs attention and what does not, any price you get would do very well to push half that

Dealer will want a margin AFTER the rebuild/make it go process and an individual - other than a self restorer - will be in a similar position excluding the margin

Either way, other thah foot traffic past your yard, I'm afraid some photos - hell, even of the shell and VIN plate - are going to be needed!

James L
Oct69 RHD 280 in DB906 with cognac leather

swampdog

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You've sat on it this long why not finish what you started? 

I have arthritis now.  If my daughter was excited about the style or interested in mechanics then it might have been worth bearing the pains.

Garry

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Come on swampdog,  34 postings on the subject now, time for just one photo of the VIN plate or even just the shell to ensure it is all real ;D ;D
Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Brisbane. Australia
1969 MB 280SL 5 speed RHD SOLD.
1965 MB 230SL Auto RHD Lt Blue 334G, Top 350H, Tourist Delivery.
1972 MB 280CE Auto RHD 906G
2005 MB A200
2006 MB B200
2019 Izuzu DMax 4x4 Slide-on camper.
2022 Volvo XC40 Electric
2024 Volvo EX30 Electric

swampdog

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Come on swampdog,  34 postings on the subject now, time for just one photo of the VIN plate or even just the shell to ensure it is all real ;D ;D

i guess I have wasted enough of your time so I may as well waste some of mine in return.  
it seems obvious at this time that a whole Pagoda in any condition is worth much less than the sum of the parts.

what looks like rust behind engine is sanding debris.  There is a sanding machine next to car at that location.  the sheet metal all came from MBZ with black primer and was undercoated with PPG AE (MB beige color) prior to welding.  this was the original color with chocolate hardtop and hubcaps.  you can see some of the overspray and drip on the quarter panel.  exterior weld joints all have surfacerust.  sandblasted upper shell was treated and primed with PPG DP401 type epoxy primer.  it will take a couple hours with phospo acid and a wire brush to clean up surface rust.  you can see some on corner of windshield frame.  fairly typical.  the bad corner weld is the entire length of seam.  the top gap is correct.  the gap narrows by 1/4" from front corner to rear.  the quarter panel includes weld to wheel well that are difficult to reach.  in order to make a structurally perfect repair the quarter may need replacing.  the pile of boxes is one of two in a spare bedroom.  it would include rubber, leather, softops, electrical, etc.  third pile in attic not climate controlled.  chrome, glass, wheels, etc.  firewall padding in trunk might be the old pad kept to help with future fitting.  The new pad was cut slightly different.  If the one in picture was new pad then i would expect other items in trunk to have equal dust.  the uncovered doorpanels can also be seen in trunk.  there was a problem with stitching on door leather.  Did not match original.  needed to be stitched differently.  I don't think it was ever fixed. that's about it for all the meaningful comments i can see.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2012, 13:05:52 by swampdog »

swampdog

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two more pics.  my browser or account has limit of four per post.

w113dude

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I'm in a process of finishing a project that was in similar condition when started, to get this car in driving condition it will need 200 to 300 hours of labor depending on quality required. in my estimate as a package if you can get $10K or something close you should take it if not part it out, it'll take a few days to get all the boxes opened and photographed then boxing and shipping, in my estimate it'll bring $13k or a bit more.

 

swampdog

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I'm in a process of finishing a project that was in similar condition when started, to get this car in driving condition it will need 200 to 300 hours of labor depending on quality required. in my estimate as a package if you can get $10K or something close you should take it if not part it out, it'll take a few days to get all the boxes opened and photographed then boxing and shipping, in my estimate it'll bring $13k or a bit more.

 

that was my estimate - 6 manweeks + 3500 parts
if it was a 280 then it would be worth fixing up. 
as a 230 i'm 95% sure from this thread that it is worth much more as parts.

J. Huber

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if it was a 280 then it would be worth fixing up...


Ok -- now you are starting to get on my nerves  ::)

Thank you for the pictures. I think its time to start dusting.
James
63 230SL

Neil Thompson

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Well Swampdog, you've stirred some interest now! If you did this at the start I would guess the offers would be flying in by now. Good Luck
1964 230 SL RHD DB304 Horizon Blue
1957 190 SL RHD DB180 Silver
1988 R107 300 SL RHD DB199 Blue Black
1978 C123 230C 2dr Auto RHD Silver

swampdog

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Well Swampdog, you've stirred some interest now! If you did this at the start I would guess the offers would be flying in by now. Good Luck

never wanted offers just wanted a straight answer. 
two pages later - a 230sl is worth more as parts than car.
what was so hard about saying that on page 1?

Garry

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Well  done swampdog, finally some pix.
Now back to your original posting where you asked
Quote"
 I can't finish this car.  It will make me remember a pair of frame up Datsun roadster convertibles that a friend and I restored in college.  I still deeply regret selling my 2000 solex.  Best car I ever owned.  I go misty eyed just thinking about it.  I'll never live with myself if I finish this car and then sell it off.  I need to either sell it as an unfinished project  or part it out.

What would you do? "
Unquote

From all the posts you will see that it may be more profitable to part it out but on this forum that would be sacrilege.  What you can also gather from these postings is that there are many that would be interested in buying it as a whole.  The third thing you can see from the postings is that the time to finish the job will be pretty much the same as all the effort required to sell off the individual parts.

SO if its money you want then parting appears to be the way, but, you said the very words that will come to haunt you in later life and that is that you will never be able to live with yourself if you finish and then sell. I don't think it will be any different seeing it go in bits as well. That to me would be the most awful feeling that I nearly got it all together and now I am just flogging off all the parts that would have allowed me or someone else finish the project. Your vision goes out the door in an ever smaller pile of bits. The perfect mental anguish of a defeated man.

Your last question was "what would you do"

My answer, if you need the money but clearly from some of your postings you don't have the time, then sell it as a project.However, life is not always about money and sometimes its more important to achieve some personal satisfaction or know that you have done what is the correct thing even though you could get more "money".

I am sure there are plenty here that can help you one way or another. To either put it all together and enjoy the satisfaction of finishing the job you started and enjoy your labours with many a peasant sunday drive or if the 'money is driving this need' sell it as a whole to someone that will get it all together and one day come over and show you what a wonderful car it turns out to be.

And last but not least, the thing that is so hard for everyone on this Forum to say is 'part out", we are all here to help each other restore and revive these wonderful examples of '60s vehicles. Other than a Vendor, we are not here to try to make money by selling parts

Garry


« Last Edit: October 28, 2012, 20:18:01 by Garry »
Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Brisbane. Australia
1969 MB 280SL 5 speed RHD SOLD.
1965 MB 230SL Auto RHD Lt Blue 334G, Top 350H, Tourist Delivery.
1972 MB 280CE Auto RHD 906G
2005 MB A200
2006 MB B200
2019 Izuzu DMax 4x4 Slide-on camper.
2022 Volvo XC40 Electric
2024 Volvo EX30 Electric

swampdog

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I called the guy who wanted to buy it last week and told him that I really appreciated his interest but that I was just going to part it out.  He asked if he could bring a friend and look at it before I started cutting it up and shipping it out.  His friend was a mercedes specialist or something.  
He said it was a 250SL based on year and serial numbers.
He also said the quarter panel was going have to be removed and replaced.
I got the feeling they were excited but did not want to say so.

How much difference does 230 vs 250 make in money?  
does it make the thing worth more as a car than as parts?
« Last Edit: October 29, 2012, 19:19:40 by swampdog »

waqas

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He said it was a 250SL based on year and serial numbers. I got the feeling they were excited but did not want to say so.
How much difference does 230 vs 250 make in money?  

As far as I understand, there is no discernible difference, especially in the present condition of the car.
However, I think you may be severely under-valuing a 230 SL. I own two myself, and they are in different stages
of [very long-term] restoration. I've rarely if ever questioned my choice of restoring a 230 SL instead of a 280 SL.
If anything, this type of discussion only renews my desire to keep more 230 SLs on the road.

does it make the thing worth more as a car than as parts?

By my estimate, the value of the car parts in this condition is at most 20% higher than the value of the sum total.
BUT that comes with a huge caveat: the value is only higher if you're able to find a buyer willing to pay for
the peak value of each part. For some parts, this will be easier to achieve (e.g. bumpers, grille, chrome trim, etc).

For most of the parts, you'll be fighting a war of attrition. If you happen to find the right buyer for each low-demand
part at the right time, then you're set. But that is a big IF. My guess is you will spend the next year or more trying to yield
the peak value of all the parts, and most parts will not yield near their value. When all is said and done, you'll eventually
sell those difficult-to-sell parts at big discounts just to get rid of them. You'll likely end up breaking close to even with
what you might have gotten for the whole car up-front. [ You're actually better-off selling the whole car now and then
immediately re-investing the proceeds into the stock market! ]

The mantra that a car is worth more in parts only yields results for those who have an unlimited amount of time and
patience toward this endeavor (such as salvage yards, parts houses, etc).

Garry makes some really excellent points:
Quote
...life is not always about money and sometimes its more important to achieve some personal satisfaction or know that
you have done what is the correct thing even though you could get more "money".

...sell it as a whole to someone that will get it all together and one day come over and show you what a wonderful car
it turns out to be.

...we are all here to help each other restore and revive these wonderful examples of '60s vehicles.

Yes, if you part it out, there is a possibility that you'll make a very marginal amount of money more than keeping the car
complete. But there will be one less example of this car on the road today. And that will be the real legacy of such an action.
Waqas (Wa-kaas) in Austin, Texas

swampdog

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Garry makes some really excellent points:
Yes, if you part it out, there is a possibility that you'll make a very marginal amount of money more than keeping the car
complete. But there will be one less example of this car on the road today. And that will be the real legacy of such an action.

my engine never even had oil put in it.  it still turns by hand and you can still eat off the cam towers.
not a speck of dust or rust inside.  a handful of SS bolts to replace the iron ones and it's good to go.
it was rebuilt by the top guru in atlanta with six month waiting list. 
I have reciept to confirm a complete rebuild with all new guts.

the injector pump still has the dealer label on it.  i have a new grill, four new alloys, new headlamps with trim, new tail lamps, and a box of new rubber with everything except windshield.

maybe I am not understanding something.  if i dumped just these parts on ebay for half price it would be right around $10K
why is it difficult to part out?

waqas

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Sounds like your car is worth a lot more than simply a "parts car." My points still stand, as I was speaking in
relative terms between parts vs. whole car. All you're saying is that the value of the entire collection is higher,
regardless of the method you use.

It also seems like your restoration is far closer to completion than I thought-- almost like a "model kit"--
and I'd wager most of us who are [or have in the past been] mired in our own restorations would jump at
the chance to simply "assemble" the kit (caveats and all). Based on all the restored and new parts you mention,
the [properly] completed car will probably fetch top dollar.

At this point, I think any discussions about absolute value are fairly useless without detailed lists / condition etc.
Waqas (Wa-kaas) in Austin, Texas

Paul & Dolly

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How much difference does 230 vs 250 make in money?  
does it make the thing worth more as a car than as parts?

[/quote]

If you have the VIN Plate or number,  then you can tell if it is a 230 or 250 SL, also the Engine should have an identifiable Casting mark.

Regards

Paul
Paul (located in Cardiff - Wales - UK)
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