speedometer

[jmbour]

The speedometer and the odometer of my 1971 280 S don't work.
I am sorry to add my problems to all of those who already had the same and described it in the forum, but :
As I am working on the dashboard to replace the heater levers (radio, clock, lighter and heater system have been pulled out of the dashboard, using the very useful information on the forum ), I am looking for a way to look also at the speedometer, at least take it out to check if the problem is with the speedometer or with the cable.
I have already tried to get access to the speedo knob form behind, but I find it quite impossible, taking account of the number of cables and wires under the dash.
Is there an easy way to get to the speedo from the radio and heating system hole in the dash, or is it necessary to access from the other side (i.e. taking the rev counter and central unit out) to reach the speedo ?
There is a mention in the forum of an "under-dash cover on the driver's side" which needs to be removed, but I don't see it.
Is there any detailed information or picture on this procedure (other or in addition to the information in the forum)?

Thanks for your help
JMB

[WRe]

Hello,
it's extremly difficult to remove the speedometer from the radio side because there is a stiffener in between. You need child hands to come along. It's better and as I think easier to do it from the left and remove the odometer first. Under the dashboard are normally under-dashboard covers (3 pieces: left, middle, right; see  www.sls-hh-shop.de/index.php/cat/c3_Mercedes-Benz-230SL-250SL-280SL-Pagode--R113-W113-.html/XTCsid/l2ipue6m49vknf76a4hmrgdnk0#cat_122 ), only stucked or fixed with 1-2 screws. But often these covers are rotten and removed.
You have to rest on the driver seat or better without it and find your way with your right arm underneath the dashboard and find the knurled screw to remove the holder that fixes the odometer. Just press very carefully on the odometer to release the holder and the screw a little bit.
....WRe

[WRe]

http://www.pagodentreff.de/diskussionsforum/t2157-baut-man-tacho.html
Maybe you need to register first to the German Pagoda forum but it's free.
...WRe

[Flyair]

WRe,

You forgot to mention that prior knowledge of German would immensely help taking advantage of the www.pagodentreff.de website

Google translate does not always get it right, unfortunately

 

[jmbour]

Thanks to WRe and FLYair :
the link with SLS doesn't work. Do you mean the plastic (or MBtex) parts under the dash ? When I take them out, it does not help, because all the under dash is metallic no hole or way to access easily to the the upper back of the dash.
I am not proficient in german, and the Google translation is sometimes very special, but I am confused, because it seems that some tried and succeeded in taking out the speedometer from the right side (radio and glovebox holes).
Conclusion : I will try again, but I would prefer not to touch the tachometer and the central unit because of the oil and temperature sensors.
JMB

[Garry]

Have a read through here in the Tech Manual

http://www.sl113.org/wiki/Electrical/DashboardInstruments

or more specifically
http://www.sl113.org/wiki/Electrical/RevCounter#CableProblems

That may help.

Garry

[fblanchard]

Bonjour,
Ce problème de démontage des instruments non concerne tous un jour ou l'autre, je n'y ai pas fait exception et à plusieurs reprises, au début ça prend la tête et à force ça devient presque amusant.
Quand il n'y a plus d'autoradio ou plaque à la place, le démontage du speedo par le côté droit ne pose pas de problème à moins d'avoir des mains et doigts énormes, il faut les glisser de part et d'autre de la forêt de fils c'est vrai.
On peut également démonter la boite à gants (pas très dur) et passer par là car l'angle de travail est alors moins aïgu et cela facilite le geste.
Enfin si vous voulez commencer de gauche à droite, ouvrez grand la portière, reculez le siège conducteur à fond, moi j'avais placé une glacière de 100 litres dans l'embrasure de la porte, une ou deux couvertures épaisses tassées en avant des pédales afin de faire un plan assez rectiligne sur lequel je pouvais m'allonger sur le dos et travailler la tête appuyée sur les pédales...
Effectivement le démontage des garnitures inférieures n'aide pas beaucoup.
Le travail je l'ai (re) fait il y a quelques mois, ça a failli me coûter mon mariage, bon courage, mais quelle satisfaction une fois terminé   ;=)

Fred from Nouméa

[Flyair]

Fred

Nous en sommes infiniment heureux que vous avez réussi de garder les deux: et votre femme bien-aimée et votre voiture certainement non moins-aimée  . Meme si en Nouvelle-Calédonie les belles doudous qui arrivent a faire tourner la tête extrêmement facilement pullulent partout . Au risque d'être désagréable pour ces dames, je parie qu'il serait plus facile de remplacer sa bien-aimée que trouver une Pagoda, en tous cas dans les DomToms  
   

By the way, maybe the SLS link did not work as they just remodeled their website, which is now a bit more attractive in my view as well as more user-friendly.

[jmbour]

To Fred and FLYair :
It will be easier to exchange in french, as it does not seem there is an official language of the forum :

J'ai bien lu et relu toutes les (excellentes) informations contenues dans le forum.
Elles m'ont été très utiles pour le démontage du tableau de bord (boite à gants, radio, montre, allume cigare et boitier de commande du chauffage).
Après avoir changé les commandes, il me reste à remonter le tout, ce qui sera certainement encore moins facile que le démontage.
Donc j'hésite beaucoup à me lancer encore dans le compteur de vitesse, le compte tours (qui émet des bruits bizarres surtout à froid, problème largement décrit dans le forum), et le rhéostat (là aussi, le forum fournit toutes les informations).
Je  comprends qu'il n'y a pas de solution miracle, et qu'il faudra que je me lance un jour.

Je vous remercie pour vos encouragements et témoignages qui prouvent en tout cas que cela est possible.

JMB

[Larry & Norma]

 

[jmbour]

Hi, Larry,

I didn't want to  exclude you from this interesting debate on the pros and cons of reaching the speedo from the right or from the left side (which is the reverse for a RHD).
With all the valuable information from the forum, it is up to me do decide If and when I will take the risk.
Regards,
JMB

[WRe]

Hi,
I hope this SLS-link (new in English) will work: www.sls-hh-shop.de/en/230-280SL-W113/68-Covering/68-d-Covering-under-dashboard/
...WRe

[jmbour]

Hi all,

Thanks WRe, The link works well : the under dash cover on the driver's side is missing on my car (that's why I had a problem in locating it).
I looked more thoroughly under the dash and saw that you need to discard at least all the relays and cables to reach the tacho.
So I went back to the right side and finally get to the knob behind the speedo, from the radio and glove box holes (I had also taken the heater control unit off, which helps a lot).

Now the speedo is out of the car and I would like to test it, in order to determine if it is faulty, or if the problem comes from the cable.
Do you have suggestions ?

[GGR]

Bonjour JMB,

J'ai effectue ce travail il y a juste quelques jours. Pour ma part je passe par la gauche: d'abord demonter le rembourrage sous le tableau de bord, puis les relais(?) qui tiennent par deux vis. A partir de la, en se meurtrissant bien la main, il est possible d'atteindre la molette derriere le compte tours. Une fois ce dernier sorti, on atteint facilement (par l'ouverture du compte tours) la molette derriere le combine central que l'on sort parrtiellement pour enfin atteindre la molette derrriere le compteur. C'est plus facile en tournant le volant d'un quart de tour vers la gauche afin de profiter du decroche du cerceau de klaxon.

Pour tester le cable, si la voiture roule, il suffit de faire le tour du quartier et de regarder si le cable tourne. Sinon, on peut bricoler qqchose avec une perceuse et faire tourner le compteur, mais je n'ai jamais essaye.

Il arrive souvent que le compteur kilometrique ne fonctionne plus alors que le compteur de vitesse fonctionne toujours. Dans ce cas c'est une molette dessertie de son axe. C'est reparable avec de la patience.

Bonne chance !

[Garry]

This is an English site guys and protocol would have it that you use English so all can join in the discussion please.

[jmbour]

Thanks, GGR  ( I lived in Washington DC from 1996 to 2004, and bought my 280 SL there),

We don't want to open a linguistic war !

I intend to drive the car (not too long, because I don't like having the battery on with all the cables loose under the dash) to check the cable.
For checking the speedo, I think a drill will be OK, but at what speed ? and is it clockwise or counter clockwise ?
JMB

[GGR]

 
Driving the car around will tell you which direction the cable is turning. If not then the cable will be the culprit anyway.

This is an English site guys and protocol would have it that you use English so all can join in the discussion please.

Garry, what protocol ? I re-read the forum's charter and conditions of use and I didn't see any language specified (If I missed it please direct me to the rule). On the other hand, first paragraph of the charter states that this is an international forum, therefore open to people of all nationalities that may, or may not, be comfortable in English. I agree that English is the language mastered by most of us (but isn't it due to a language selection already?) and it's only common sense to use English as a vehicular language on this forum in the great majority of cases and discussions. I also agree that in this particular case we could have had the conversation in English as all its participants do master written English. But as far as I know, no rule or protocol specifies this forum as being "an English site” and I feel that members should be free to exchange a few words in any language if it pleases them to do so, especially when they are not that comfortable in English (some threads may be written in good English but other members do not realize the work and time spent for that by members who want to post in proper English when this is not a language they master fully – I know what I’m talking about, as I was a car enthusiast long before being fluent in English).  I realize your concern about all being able to join the discussion (apart from the ones that are not comfortable in English?), but this is coming at a potential cost of having some international participants cut off the discussion, when some others could have translated if needed.

I believe that imposing English as a strict rule is cutting a great number of international owners from sharing their experiences and from getting support when they need it. You may have Pagoda owners in South America, Asia, Middle East or Africa that are being cut off from this community  just because of language when I’m sure that among all members we master enough languages to help out a non English speaker owner or even translate if needed. We should compare pagoda sales around the world and see if this is represented in this site’s membership. I’m ready to bet that English speaking countries are over represented.

I’ve been several times on German websites and posted in English because my German is too poor to hold a conversation. I’ve always been helped out, some members sometimes translating in German for other members to be also able to help out. I’ve never been told “this is a German site and protocol would have it that I have to use German”. I’ve also seen people post in Spanish, Italian, German, English and other languages on French Citroen DS forums (DS is the other car I cherish) and I’ve always seen other members trying to help out, or calling other members in the discussion because they know the language etc. Never seen these international owners being told to shift their language if they wanted to go on participating. I find this quite rude, especially on an international forum, and by people who do not have to make the effort to write all their posts in a foreign language.

Of course Garry, please don't feel offended. I'm reacting because this is not the first time I see this happening on this site in discussions involving other languages (Spanish being one I remember) and other participants. No need to say that I didn't see these international non english speaking participants go on posting actively on this forum afterwards.

[jmbour]

Hello !

I agree with GGR.
It is always a pleasure to see a few words in french. Sometimes it's easier and more precise to use its own native language, mainly when the discussion deals with highly technical topics. I even understand that a lot of technical terms are different from English to American English, not speaking about Australian.
However, I admit that I have problems with German on German MB or Pagoda oriented forums.
But this could be avoided with the use of Gloogle translator or any other translation software, as far as they will improve.

Reverting to our discussion : this morning I tested the speedo with a small screwdriver turned BY HAND to THE LEFT (counter clockwise), and THE NEEDLE MOVED.
So it seems you don't need a drill which could damage the speedo mechanism, and it has to be turned to the left (looking at the back of the speedo or to the right if you look a the end of the cable).
I think that it is all I can do by myself.
I envisage to bring the car to a garage to have the cable changed or the connection to the gearbox repaired if necessary.
In the meantime, I wonder if I could easily take off the bezel and the glass to clean the inside of the glass and eventually convert the scale from MPH to KM/H, or if I can find somebody to do this job.

JMB

[GGR]

JMB, changing a speedo cable is not that difficult, especially if you're able to do a job like replacing the heater levers.

You should still try driving around to see if the cable moves. Sometimes it is just that the cable is not properly engaged in the speedo.

[jmbour]

OK, I have taken the heater levels out; I need now to put them back in place, with all the cables well attached.

From the forum, I understand that you need to disengage the speedo cable from the gearbox, which means you have to get the car on a stand
 is it right ? or could I only take the cable off and put the new one form the upper end ?
But you are right : I need to drive the car to see if the cable turns.
JMB

[GGR]

Yes, you need to disconnect the cable from the trans to replace it. Jack the car in the front left, secure with a jack stand or anything else just in case the jack fails, lie under the car on the left side. The cable connects at the back of the trans just before the output flange. take the 10mm bolt/pin out and pull on the cable. Replace new one in reverse order.

[snjjahshan]

Hi JMB,

I don't know whether this is useful information as to where you are at right now.

I was told by an old timer mechanic that deals with these matters all the time is that you need to turn your wipers on so that the blade stops in the vertical position. This will give you a little more room to fit a generous mechanic's hand into the space instead of a child's hand.

Hope this helps.

Saleem
Sydney Australia

[fblanchard]

Hi all

Just few last words about language because I think I'm the first who recently used my native language and that caused big trouble.I feel guilty.

GGR said all I wanted to say. I hadn't seen any rule concerning language to be used on this forum. Besides I honestly thought that few words in our language could bring a bit of of french charming touch...

Obviously that was not appreciated at all .I understood and I won't do it again. I'm very sorry about that and apologise.

But Garry you could have been smoother with us or with the same sense use the famous australian humour that I often appreciate and will soon appreciate once more when I come for holidays in your country.

All I wanted to say to JMB (thanks God I read Garry's response before posting the answer I had prepared in french...) is to verify before the test drive that the oil pressure pipe is well connected to the center cluster otherwise engine oil will splash into the dash and on the carpets. It happened to me as a good beginner because working for a long time on the instruments can make you forget important things sometimes.
We only are humans.

The other and last thing is at the point where you are you can go for total dash work. I agree the most difficult is behind you and if you had noises in the cables before stop working they obviously need lubrication. There are much posts concerning this subject. Personnally I used medical perfusion needelles and seryngues. I slowly injected gearbox oil. The space aound the cable is very narrow and it's difficult to find the good diameter of needlle rergarding viscosity of the oil employed. For me it worked well and (temporarily) solved the noise and bouncing needelles problem on both counters.

Yours sincerely.
Kind regards.

Fred from Nouméa

[Garry]

Hi Fred,

Sorry if I have come over bluntly, was not my intent, but as you also see when Larry did his   as a gentle hint, often members just read the postings with out actually adding anything but are learning little tricks from the posts.  Saleems post below about centring the wipers is the classic example that would have been lost to 90%of members here if it was in French.  Everyone here would speak English in some form where the alternative site, Pagode.de is a German speaking Pagoda site used a lot by the European people and is in German only.

I actually think it is written into our protocols here but could not find it. It has come up before with the same comments.

So don't feel bad, its not that it is not appreciated, it is just to allow everyone to participate either in the discussion or learn from others. Normally its Alfred or Peter who comment on languageand they are much blunter than me

Garry

Now if you are coming to Melbourne I expect you to look me up and I will buy you a beer or three.

[66andBlue]

.....  Normally its Alfred or Peter who comment on languageand they are much more blunter than me ..

Garry,
When it comes to bluntness, nobody beats an Aussie!