radiator shroud

[ptooner]

Apparently my 65 230SL with AC should have had a radiator fan shroud installed.  It doesn't have one and it tends to overheat at idle in warm weather.  I haven't had much luck locating the shroud, does anyone have a source?
Thanks
Gerry

[Jonny B]

Took a look at the big parts book (Edition C, 1967 for 230 SL) it lists the part number as 113 505 02 55 (with a footnote indicating it is for A/C cars). It is not listed in the Edition B.

[IXLR8]

Hi--

There are two for sale on eBay, item number 261146579899. They are asking $250.


the other Joe

[Jonny B]

You might also try a direct call to K&K Mfg in Michigan. The often times have items in their stock that are not listed on the web site. You can get the phone number on the web page (www.kkmfg.com).

[ptooner]

I know it's been a while but I did buy the $250 shroud but now I can't see any way to attach it to the car.  Anyone with photos or suggestions?  So far as I can tell my car never had one.  The radiator is mounted with bolts going in from the side and the shroud appears to need bolts going forward.  Is there some sort of bracket???

Gerry

[rb6667]

Gerry, There should be some brackets (4) on the engine side of your radiator.  They are very small and take a 4 or 5mm bolt.  I have a previous post that may help with your installation.

Search under my user name rb6667 and subject: fan shroud install.

Be glad to help in any way.  Feel free to PM.


rb6667

[rb6667]

Here is a picture of how the shroud attaches to the radiator.  This is on my 68 280Sl your 230SL may be different.  There are 4 brackets/tabs that are on the engine side of the radiator.  These tabs are threaded with what I think I remember as a 5mm thread size.  These 4 bolts have to be very short to avoid interference with the radiator.

I know the 230 shroud is somewhat different from the 280 shroud.  Hopefully, some 230 owners can chime in and give you some additional information.

Getting these these shrouds installed can be a real challenge.  Take your time, and you will get it done.  Let us know how else we can help.


RB6667

 

[ptooner]

Okay with the help of that picture I can see where the mounts would be if I had any.  Apparently I don't.  I'll try to attach the photo I just took of the same area and it appears that there is something similar to angle iron attached to your radiator that holds the nut.  Mine doesn't appear to have any such thing.   I talked to a pretty good MB shop today and the head mechanic suggested that I should take the radiator out and take it to a radiator shop where they could solder on these brackets.  He also expressed the opinion that the shroud would make very little difference in the cooling.  Any other ideas?  The mechanic suggested removing the current fan and try to install an electric one.  I'm not sure I can get one in even with the fan removed, however.

Gerry

[rb6667]

Gerry, It appears to me that your radiator used to have those brackets/tabs on it.  Probably when the radiator was recored/repaired at some time in the past, they were removed.   I put your picture and my picture side by side on my screen.  The radiators appear to very similar if not identical.  Also noted is an area on your radiator fins/core that looks to have some damage to it.   That is right where the bolt would hit the radiator if it was too long or put on without a washer.   This confirms my belief that someone got careless at the radiator shop in the past.
 
The mechanics comments about it not doing a lot to help with cooling is probably somewhat accurate.  However, I can tell you that putting my hand behind the Grille Star with the the engine running, with the shroud installed, did produce a stronger airflow then without the shroud.  Not a lot more airflow, but an improvement.

My vote would be to remove the radiator and have some fashioned brackets soldered on before looking at an electric fan.

Many members report excellent results with an electric fan as a supplement to the stock cooling system.  Just would not be my 1st choice unless there are no other options to solve your problem.

Keep us posted, and let us know how you proceed.

RB6667

 

  





 

    

[66andBlue]

As far as I know 230SL cars did not have a shroud installed with the radiator, and the part number listed in the 230SL parts list is only for the a/c option as Jonny B wrote.
Also you cannot compare a 280SL radiator with a 230SL radiator, the latter has different dimensions because of the oil cooler (heat exchanger) and attachments. Without a/c the radiator with the viscous coupling is sufficient in a 230SL, even in summer here in CA when it gets hot.
I'll try to take some photos of the radiator in my 230SL (without a/c) and post tomorrow.
Here is the photo showing the tab for the attachment of a shroud but I would not add one if you do not have a/c.

[66andBlue]

Gerry,
does your 230SL have a/c?
What is the piping for that I can see in your photo?

[ctaylor738]

I can state with some confidence that the late 230s have fan shrouds.  I put a rebuilt radiator and a new water pump in 19798 last year and it damn sure had a shroud.  It did not have AC. 

[Jonny B]

Most interesting. I have a 250 SL (early one) and it does not have a shroud. I state with a bit of a grain of salt, as it is a rebuilt car.

[Garry]

65 230SL and no fan shroud.

[ctaylor738]

mercedesheritage.com has one with (1967) and one without (1966).

[georgem]

Same as Gary, - `65 230Sl no shroud.

Hey Garry, check out the addition to the fleet

[66andBlue]

I can state with some confidence that the late 230s have fan shrouds.  I put a rebuilt radiator and a new water pump in 19798 last year and it damn sure had a shroud.  It did not have AC.  

Hi Chuck,
does that mean we need to question the accuracy of the information in the spare parts list?  
Personally, if I would see a late 230SL with a fan shroud but without a/c my first task would be to look for bullet proof assurance that nothing, and I mean nothing, was ever changed on that car. Otherwise I am sticking to the information provided by the spare parts list.  
Of course, the more important aspect is, why install a shroud if none is needed?

[mdsalemi]

bullet proof assurance that nothing, and I mean nothing, was ever changed on that car.

After all these years, and for many cars, so many owners, I suggest that this is a near impossible task. Even on a one-owner car, who knows, really, unless that one person was absolutely, 100% cognizant of everything being done to his/her car, all the time, over decades?  I recently went to look at a one-owner 1971 280SL, one of the last Pagodas made.  Despite the owner insisting that the car was "original" with no body work, etc. I discovered plenty of evidence of work being done, things that either escaped the owner's memory or were just done and added to a service bill that might not have received elaborate scrutiny.  Whose to say if someone had a minor cooling issue back in 1968 on a 230SL, that a dealer or independent wouldn't have installed a shroud in attempts to alleviate the issue?

Of course, the more important aspect is, why install a shroud if none is needed?

[reportedly] more directed airflow which should result in better cooling.

[ctaylor738]

Yes, and there's sin in the world.  I think on late 230 and 250 cars you need to be careful.

This car also had a four hole pump and bigger fan.  It looked like everything was original to me. I distinctly remember that the pump really wanted to stay on the engine.   Gernold supplied a rebuilt radiator and he didn't seem surprised when I mentioned the shroud.

Here's another with a shroud.

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/carsforsale/mercedes_benz/230sl/1568285.html

[ptooner]

Gerry,
does your 230SL have a/c?
What is the piping for that I can see in your photo?

Yes, it does have AC and that is the hose to the condenser.  Additional info/thoughts my situation is the AC hasn't worked for decades.  OTOH the car overheats at idle here in Florida.  It stays cool at highway speeds up to about 80 and it starts getting warm there or above.  It has a puny looking 4 blade fan.  I'm wondering if the solution is in re-coring the radiator.  Does anyone have any experience with flushing the system.  I mean have you seen any real improvement that way?  I'm considering removing the radiator and having it re-cored.

Gerry

[Garry]

My 230SL had air which I removed because I do not like it but having said that it worked fine with the four blade fan here in Australia in temperatures up to 100 degree f and more some days without any problem.  Re-core the radiator and have a chemical flush of the engine and you should not have any more problems.  If you do then there is more going on than just the water and it may be tuning or worse.

Garry

[George Des]

My late 66 230Sl Italian model has the mounts for the shroud. I am the second owner since 1976 and it has never had a shroud in the time I owned it. Fairly sure it never had one before either. I installed an a/c system using the stock KM evaporator and a rotary compressor with a parallel flow condenser. Stopped in traffic on a hot day, the temp will rise slightly but comes down immediately when back up to speed. I attribute some of this to the size of the condenser which almost totally covers the front of the radiator.