SL as a daily car?

[SGJ91]

Hello all. A thought crossed my mind recently...

Would a W113 work at all as a daily car? That is to say, is it fairly robust and reliable? I live in Los Angeles, so rust is not an enemy.

I'm considering replacing my current car in the future with a fairly clean, but far from perfect, 230 SL.

[Bonnyboy]

A "fairly clean but far from perfect 230sl"?  Once you get a Pagoda you are going to want to improve it just because the cars deserve the best.  You will have your car off the road for periods.   I would suggest buy a honda civic to drive in addition to the 230sl, and drive the Pagoda as often as you can.   The Pagoda will need work and by not having the pressure of taking everything into the shop everytime something needs fixing, you can maintain/enhance a senior Pagoda fairly cheeply if you do your own work, and you learn about it at the same time.   

I just resurected a car that sat for 20+ years in not the greatest conditions.  I cannot believe how well built these cars are and so far suggest that this is 1/2 as expensive to maintain than an old Jag of similar vintage. 

I don't drive my Pagoda every day but I do drive it every chance I get and so far have not had any concerns about reliability.   These cars deserve better than to be driven daily in rush hour bumper to bumper traffic.  You gotta remember that 230sl's are at least 48 years old.

[SGJ91]

I don't drive my Pagoda every day but I do drive it every chance I get and so far have not had any concerns about reliability.   These cars deserve better than to be driven daily in rush hour bumper to bumper traffic.  You gotta remember that 230sl's are at least 48 years old.

I could certainly have a beater car alongside it. That said, my commute will be all local, with heavy traffic a rare occurrence.

My main concern is reliability, though I can certainly learn to wrench.

I'm just trying to understand the intricacies of the W113.

[Jonny B]

I would agree that have the "beater" or whatever as the back up is an eminently good idea.

These cars are indeed reliable, once you get them right, they tend to stay that way. But, as the others have typed, it is approaching 50 years old, old technology that most are not used to (more frequent oil changes, chassis lube, points, condenser, plugs, valve adjustments, etc.) need to be attended to.

Keep us all posted on your experiences!

[SGJ91]

Assuming I were to get one, it wouldn't be soon.

I'm just doing research at this point. 

That said, my loins ache for an Ivory/Cognac 230SL with the manual transmission.

[Flyair]

Once you actually have the car, your initial ache will become disease mixed with addictive habits That's what Pagodas do to all of us...

[Benz Dr.]

I drove a 190SL as my summer daily driver for a number of years. It only left me on the road one time when a wire broke off going to the starter. Although I was quite a bit smaller 20 years ago I was still 6'3'' and over 200 lbs, so it wasn't what you'd call roomy.

I used to drive my 230SL from about March until November every year, rain or shine. It is a dependable car. It never broke down in any way that wasn't expected - flat tire, out of gas, oil on points one day. Once I figured out how to work on it, the car has been stellar.

[Michael C]

I drove my 280SL am my daily driver for well over 10 years.  Not alot of rain here in San Diego and I only drive about 3 miles each way to work.  The problem is going to work smelling like an old car every day.  It was fun for a while, the car did great and was very reliable.  I still have the car, but not sure I would go back to being a daily driver.  I think everybody is right on.  Get a beater Honda as well and trade off.  And for Los Angeles, get an automatic,

Michael

[SGJ91]

Manual = sacrosanct

You couldn't pay me to drive an automatic car.  

[Cees Klumper]

Pagoda makes for a perfect daily driver in my experience. Should not have to smell like an old car really. Good luck making up your mind.

[Flyair]

or if there is some old stuff smell, maybe the car is not its origin   At the end of the day, Pagoda's average driver's age is not getting lower, quite to the opposite, so… draw your own conclusions

[J. Huber]

Here is my take. Yes, a Pagoda can be used daily if it is well-maintained. I know in my case, I could drive my car every day and only the weather could stop me (snow/ice). These cars would not be still around if they were not sturdy. The problem is if (not when perhaps) you do have an issue -- everything gets a little more challenging. First off, what if you have to leave the car unattended (side of road, in a parking lot)? In Los Angeles -- or sadly many places, this is trouble waiting to happen. Second, unlike most modern cars, these cars require a skilled, old-school German car mechanic to get them back up quickly and cheaply (?). You may have one -- but I am just saying its different than a 2009 Honda Civic.

I'd get two cars -- a Pagoda and something else to rack up miles.

[Cees Klumper]

So actually when it comes to repairs, reliability etc my own experience having had my SL now for 13 or so years is that I do all the maintenance and repairs myself, whereas on my two modern Volvos I (feel like I have to) leave everything to the dealer or a professional garage. The last time I had a garage (Van Dijk in Holland) do anything to the car must be at least six or seven years ago. Before I moved to Switzerland three years ago, where I basically do everything by scooter because cars are a nightmare to get around in, I put on about 7,000 km each year, although I always had a 'daily driver' (really more for family needs than anything else) as well. Having two cars rather than one, if you really only need one, is a hassle and more expensive: parking, annual maintenance (oil changes, brake fluids etc), insurance, road taxes, depreciation; if you can avoid havng an additional car, that's a good thing. My Pagoda only left me stranded once in all those years, and that was due to PO mistakes, in the first few months of ownership. My modern cars have let me down at least once each, sometimes more often.
Then the Pagoda has plenty of power, comfort, power steering and braking, a good heater, I could go on. So let's start a poll on how many here believe the Pagoda could be a dependable daily driver ...

[Benz Dr.]

Here is my take. Yes, a Pagoda can be used daily if it is well-maintained. I know in my case, I could drive my car every day and only the weather could stop me (snow/ice). These cars would not be still around if they were not sturdy. The problem is if (not when perhaps) you do have an issue -- everything gets a little more challenging. First off, what if you have to leave the car unattended (side of road, in a parking lot)? In Los Angeles -- or sadly many places, this is trouble waiting to happen. Second, unlike most modern cars, these cars require a skilled, old-school German car mechanic to get them back up quickly and cheaply (?). You may have one -- but I am just saying its different than a 2009 Honda Civic.

I'd get two cars -- a Pagoda and something else to rack up miles.

So, do you take your old Honda to an old Japanese mechanic? I hear this '' take it to an old German mechanic '' enough to know it's both true and false at the same time. I'm a self-taught mechanic, of French ancestry, a Canadian, a farmer, and a MB guy.

Nothing German about me, but I am getting to be an old guy though...... does that count for anythiing?

[dpreston Virginia]

A friend of mine has a 280SL daily driver in Roanoke, Va. He had the car restored and drives it daily. I see it all the time at the athletic club we both frequent. Drives it mostly with the hard top on even in the summer.
He has it repaired when it has issues. He does not work on the car him self but, he said its cheaper than a modern car to operate.

[J. Huber]

Sorry Dr. Benz -- if your name is not Hans or Werner or Gunther your out of luck.... 

Kidding you Doc. If you look at my statement closer you will see I said "old-school German car mechanic..."

Billy Bob or Jose or Vladimir would be fine as long as they know how to set Bosch points and know what I mean when I say 113...

[twistedtree]

I'd say Absolutely, but take a few precautions.  First, have a back up car.  Anything that is 50 years old is more likely to have unexpected problems than a modern car, and when it does need work you don't want to feel rushed.  Having a backup will solve both of these problems.

Second, I'd go through and pre-emptively replace a number of items that typically fail, and are even more prone to failure on a car that has been sitting for a long time.  I'd replace cooling hoses, belts, water pump, ignition parts, and go through and do a complete oil/fluid service.  I'd replace shocks, and check all the suspension and steering joints and bushings, plus motor mounts and front frame mounts.  Better yet, just replace all the rubber bushings.  Unless they have been replaced in the past 5-10 years, they are likely shot anyway, plus they will make for a much more enjoyable drive.

Oh, and I would replace the points with an electronic ignition of some sort.  Check the Tech Manual for good articles on a variety of styles.  This one thing will hugely increase the cars reliability, and reduce the need for regular maintenance and adjustments.

Then have fun.

[Flyair]

Having four children to drop at school before driving to the office, which is my case, eliminates Pagoda as daily driver for obvious reasons. Besides, in the winter, our roads become salt open pits, where your daily intakes of NaCl can be had for free. Just by licking your car . This eliminates my Pagoda from streets even more definitely. So I use my humble "other" Mercedes to do the daily work.

However, assuming that your lovely Pagoda is fit and willing, I generally agree that our Pagodas can be a daily driver, provided that certain particular circumstances are met: you drive alone (that young person with sun glasses and scarf is your only option ), on relatively short distances and the climate is clement.    


BTW, Dan, by saying: "I'm a self-taught mechanic, of French ancestry, a Canadian, a farmer, and a MB guy" you forgot that you are also a doctor… isn't it what Dr stand for? So with such a title MB guy is almost a MBA guy

[jaxxonia]

Hello SGJ91,

I commend your thoughts on driving a 113 on a daily basis in the L.A area.  In a perfect world, that is a perfect solution for transportation.  Living in the greater L.A. area and having owned my SL for about 15 years, i would add this observation that Mr. Huber touched upon.  In L.A., the 113 is a target for thieves.  Tom Collit, John Travolta and countless others can attest to that fact.  If you have secure private parking wherever you go, that would help.  But if you have to park on the street or in public areas, you are being naive to think that nothing will happen.  The values of our cars are escalating and making them all the more a target every day. 

I have agreed-value collector car insuranse on my baby.  An every day driver would preclude you from that type of coverage.  Please just be aware of the practical consequences of driving a 113 in L.A. on a daily basis.

And by the way, I have an automatic, but I drive it like a stick.  But if I had to do it again, I'd look for a manual!
Best of luck!
Jaxxonia

[al_lieffring]

from 1974-1982 my 230sl was my primary transportation. Even 30 years ago it started to be impractical for daily driving, premium fuel had become almost non-existent, after a fender bender where the other drivers insurance was not willing to pay a "capricious" $1100 claim I put the car away in storage. I ended up paying the repairs out of pocket instead of filing a suit. At least I got one of the last all red tail light sets out of the deal.

[mdsalemi]

This entire topic brings up an interesting issue.  What will a 2012 SL550 look or behave like in 2052?  With so many electronic modules in all modern cars (I'd assume the SL has its share), these will certainly have their integrity compromised in 40 years.  Aside from the control modules--for anti-lock brakes, ECU, transmission, and whatever--there is an issue of things like airbags.

I'm not feeling that the electronically controlled things will last as long as mechanical.  Most electronics are simply not repairable--with ultra high density circuit boards, many layers, etc. they work until they don't.  When they stop, they must be tossed.  Where will new ones come from? The parts bins will be full for only so long.  A 40-year old NOS ECU is not something I'd want...

I guess we should enjoy our mechanical babies when we can, because the future for electronics isn't too bright.

[simonarn]

I would suggest that the idea of daily use of a 113 is a little romantic rather than realistic. It is certainly reliable enough but why would you want to run a 45 year old car into the ground? The car deserves better as it has survived a lot longer than most cars and will reward an owner that takes care of and enjoys their car at the weekends and to club meets, with only good things. Classic cars are conversation starters, entry cards for car club fraternity, an honest pasttime and above all a very special and rewarding moment spent in the car. A daily drive only reverts the car to a mode of transport that the car surely no longer is.

[Cees Klumper]

I would suggest that the idea of daily use of a 113 is a little romantic rather than realistic. It is certainly reliable enough but why would you want to run a 45 year old car into the ground?

I believe that not or only very rarely using any car causes more harm than regular use (of course coupled with good maintenance). There's a continuing story about a Volvo P1800 that has more than 3 million miles on it and still going strong. So I don't see the 'be careful it's so old' arguments really.

[Cees Klumper]

This entire topic brings up an interesting issue.  What will a 2012 SL550 look or behave like in 2052? 

I guess we should enjoy our mechanical babies when we can, because the future for electronics isn't too bright.

Don't worry Michael, in 40 years conventional fuel will be so expensive that probably almost none of toda's cars will be really useable!

[Peter van Es]

I'm not feeling that the electronically controlled things will last as long as mechanical.  Most electronics are simply not repairable--with ultra high density circuit boards, many layers, etc. they work until they don't.  

In Africa there is a whole industry built around removing electronic gizmo's from cars and replacing them with mechanical gizmo's such that Peugeots and Mercedes cars can be used a little while longer.

Furthermore, with more and more standardization in the electronics area (can-bus and open standards for electronic motor management interfaces) coming up more and more in the car industry, just like in telecommunications, will ensure that 3rd party vendors will be able to produce generic black boxes that can replace proprietary electronic units. As long as the interface is well defined this can be done.

You can see how advanced people are, by the emergence of chip-tuning, where 3rd parties completely reprogram the motor management unit and tweak out the extra 20-30 hp hidden in engines (the difference between two engines in the Volkswagen-Audi-Group, which also has brands like Seat and Skoda is frequently NOT mechanical at all, just in the motor management software).

So I would concur with Cees... gasoline will probably be too expensive before the electronics cannot be repaired or replaced anymore.

Peter