Mercedes 220SL Concept car ?

[GGR]

Does anybody know about this car? First ime I see this picture :

Edit: I added the picture of a Pagoda below for comprison purposes

Second Edit: I added a picture of my lowered pagoda for comparison purposes as well

[Markbhai]

I have seen it on here before... a Pagoda without a Pagoda roof...

[mdsalemi]

GGR,

In April of 1960, Paul Bracq executed a series of renderings/design exercises where the hard top of the W113 was presented in a variety of different styles.  I chose a few of them to highlight on page 101 of Pagoda Style.  The particular execution in metal that the photo shows looks like one I did not use; if you have a copy of the book, it shows the top like #2, but with a difference in the small window shape.  The familiar Pagoda roof came later.

[Flyair]

If am not mistaken, this is one of the style evolution that Paul Bracq was in charge of, conceived between 1959 and 1960. You can see this picture (as well as one showing the front) in the book "Faszination SL" on page 6, published by Mercedes Benz Museum in Stuttgart.

This model was actually built, as opposed to other predecessors to the final production car.

On page 101 of the excellent album "Pagoda Style" prepared and edited by, and published under the savvy supervision of our fellow member Michael Salemi, you will find six drawings representing various concepts of the Pagoda model.

Some additional details as well as a selection of three renderings from 1960 can be found in the book "Les Mercedes Pagoda" (page 31), published in French (sorry Garry), with the foreword of Paul Bracq.

PS. as I posted this message I saw that Michael posted his while I was typing mine

[GGR]

I like this design very much. It is closer to the W111 Coupe design which I find the most elegant MB design of the era. It may not be as distinctive as the Pagoda roof we are used to, but I think it is more refined. Looking at the picture, this is not only a different hard top. The rest of the car is also quite different: The sills are rounder and start higher, the "hips" start on the door and I feel the whole car design flows a bit better and is closer to Italian designs of the era. I couldn't find any pictures of the front on the net. How does it look like?

[Garry]

I like it also as I think the cutaway of the door at the B pillar very appealing.  Not so keen on what appears to be a deeper sill though.

[GGR]

These deeper sils date the design more. They have something of a 300SL. The real Pagoda looks more modern. That 220SL could have come out at the end of the 50s and fit very well in the era. I find it very elegant.

[Flyair]

also have a look at handles that are direct reminders of 300SL. Vey sporty indeed, but certainly less comfortable for long nails of the target clientele...  

[Richard Madison]

A number of rejected non-Pagoda roof cars are shown in the comprehensive history of early SL's by Gunter Engelen.

He had access to Mercedes archives and shows many images and documents from those historic records.

Available only in German but worth a look either with a German Dictionary in one hand or to enjoy the many images and the very detailed Specification and Options section.

"Mercedes- Benz 190SL - 280SL Vom Barock zur Pagode" Motor Buch Verlag 1997

Richard M, NYC

[GGR]

I have added a picture of a Pagoda below the first picture for comparison purposes. The 220sl concept looks lower and more "élancée". Google translates it by "slenderly", not sure this can apply to a car.

[Tomnistuff]

I doesn`t just look lower, it is lower.  Look at where the projection of the lower edge of the rear quarter intersects the rear tire and where the front bumper height is relative to the front tire.  The Pagoda, by comparison looks like it is on tippy-toes.  Also, note that the exhaust pipes are missing.  To me it looks more elegant and luxurious than the Pagoda, especially with the really really wide whitewalls on a white car.

Has anyone lowered a Pagoda (graphically, of course) to see how it would look?  I`ve always thought the Pagoda sat a couple of inches too high.

Tom Kizer

[GGR]

Has anyone lowered a Pagoda (graphically, of course) to see how it would look?  I`ve always thought the Pagoda sat a couple of inches too high.

I did lower my Pagoda as part of the suspension and chassis upgrades to handle the 5.6L motor, as seen below (yes, the car is in need of body work and a new paint!). The car looks less on tippy-toes, but the hard top kind of sticks out compared to the 220SL concept :

[Cees Klumper]

Dear Mods - what's the policy on banning anyone who suggests that the final Pagoda design is not clearly the very best one? I mean, we need some discipline here!

[GGR]

Dear Mods - what's the policy on banning anyone who suggests that the final Pagoda design is not clearly the very best one? I mean, we need some discipline here!

Ha! Ha! Ha!

But at least we suggested it in English, so we should be fine !

[71Beige280SL]

The rocker panel looks much wider as well. I really like the looks of it.

[thelews]

I like the design, sportier, a bit of Italian feel to it.  Cleaner.  The final 113 had that more stodgy German feel, less flowing.  Not sure, but is the top not as high too?

[PaulC]

This prototype car appears to have been registered.

I wonder what happend to it?

PC

[GGR]

This prototype car appears to have been registered.

I wonder what happend to it?

I found a very interesting thread here: http://freeforumzone.leonardo.it/discussione.aspx?idd=9103088

It says that several MB prototypes of the 60s used the same tag number, BB being for Böbligen, region in which Sindelfingen is located. So unfortunately that registration won't lead to the car. MB museum may be able to tell us what happened to it.

Below are a few other prototypes using the same registration :

[Benz Dr.]

Intertesting vent accents used on the 600. They have a 300SL look about them. I'm glad they decided not to use them as they lend nothing to the clean lines of the car. Clearly, they were trying to cash in on the sucess of the 300SL by using different things from that car on other models. They really only worked on the 300 though.
 
Even the proto-type 190SL used '' Mercedes-Benz'' script on the front fenders similar to the gullwing so they knew they had something marketable. Each car took on its final form through a lot of thought and planning by providing the buyer with clean lines; a stated, yet subtle elegance on the high end models - well all except the 600 of course.

[Artur]

Hello, everybody. This is my first posting to The Group. Here is the link to very interesting clip about Pagoda: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnOP3oarU10  
You can see Mr. Paul Bracq showing four different versions of Pagoda roof...

[Flyair]

There we are: Maitre Paul Bracq himself spoke about this very topic. Great video, but I would like to warn that it is… excusez le mot - en français, so Artur, make sure to provide at least some subtitles.  

[GGR]

Awful ! Paul Bracq speaking in a "foreign" language ! Who wanted him as our honorary chairman ?

Arthur, thanks for posting the link and welcome to the board. Don't get scared by our childish comments as they are related to another discussion !

Interesting to note Paul Bracq mentioning that resistance to impact is not the best quality of the pagoda roof when Barenyi's "experience had shown that concave roofs offer a high degree of rigidity in case of a roll-over", as mentioned here : http://www.smashwords.com/extreader/read/101673/6/history-of-mercedes-benz-the-1960s-the-pagoda-sl

[dseretakis]

So Gael, are we going to modify your hardtop C pillar to resemble the prototype and your coupe?

[Flyair]

GGR
if you se what I mean

I also  spotted that comment of Paul Bracq about the resistance of the Pagoda style HT to shocks and  I read elsewhere that the concave shape was actually the fruit of research of Bela Barenyi with the aim of achieving better visibility, accessibility AND security to crash. Should we conclude that there has been some tension between the two Founding Fathers (without forgetting Uhlenhaut and Geiger)

[GGR]

Should we conclude that there has been some tension between the two Founding Fathers (without forgetting Uhlenhaut and Geiger)

Now that you say it, and from  the tone of Paul Bracq's comment in the video, indeed, it could be interpreted as an old disagreement. But that's speculation. I don't even know if a Hard Top is supposed to be part of the car's rigidity in case of roll over. I guess the fixing points would break ?