NADA Pagoda Values

[71Beige280SL]

Just out of curiosity, I went to the NADA website and looked up the value of our cars. See attached link to the page. The site states the average retail price for our cars is  $51,700. I was pleased with that number. I expected it to be lower. High retail is $106,370. Thoughts?

http://www.nadaguides.com/Classic-Cars/1971/Mercedes-Benz/280SL/2-Door-Roadster/Values

[Douglas]

Must have some variation based on zip... it's giving me slightly lower numbers for a NY zip code. $47K for avg retail and $96.7K for high retail.

[badali]

Click the add 10% for hardtop button on the previous page.

[Tomnistuff]

It`s interesting that the 71 280SL high end is about $50,000 more than the equivalent 66 230SL high end price - almost double.  I`m not sure I believe that.

Tom Kizer

[Brian in NL]

I don't buy that either. 280s generally are priced higher, but not that much ... especially for excellent specimins.

[thelews]

And everyone who's anyone with these cars knows the 230s and early 250s are the better cars.

[kampala]

And everyone who's anyone with these cars knows the 230s and early 250s are the better cars.

John ... look out ... them fighting words 

[Alf]

Someone hold coat 

[Kayvan]

Classic Center sold a 100 point car for $183,000

[71Beige280SL]

I didn't mean to start a Forum rugby scrum!    As I understand the data, this is based on actual sales by geography meaning zipcode. Having said that, others may know better. My intent was to start a discussion on the increasing values of our cars be they 230, 250 or 280! I believe they are all going up. Its all good!

[badali]

2 different 280 SLs sold for $70,000 and $72,880 on ebay recently.  That is if the cars don't get relisted due to a non paying bidder.

[Benz Dr.]

 The value of 113's is going up slowly.

What we are seeing right now is the prices of perfectly restored cars being introduced into the market place. You are looking at anywhere from $110,000.00 to about $175.000.00 which is really an indication of MB and the high prices they ask for everything that's old.

You can get a very high end car from the guy in the DR for about 115K which is a pretty good deal because you could never restore a car in the USA for that price. Each car gets about 2200 hours spent on it so even at $50.00 an hour it couldn't be done here for that price once you dd in the cost of parts. I would rate his cars somewhere in the number 2 range.

So, in reallity, the cars you are seeing for 75K are nice number 3 cars. Number 3 cars have a fairly wide range and even a restoreable car with all new parts is still a number 3.
We do mid range muber 3 cars here which is what most people want. These cars look good, run well, and everyhing works. Any way you look at it, you won't be able to put a nice car together for much less than 50K.

[66andBlue]

Classic Center sold a 100 point car for $183,000

100 point? On whose scale?
Or should I ask out of how many: 125, 250, 500 points? 

[mdsalemi]

100 point? On whose scale?
Or should I ask out of how many: 125, 250, 500 points? 

Come on Alfred!  You are WAY smarter than that and you know exactly what Kayvan was talking about.

While there are many sources for the information, and some degrees of interpretation at the margins, when people talk of the condition of a vintage car they follow the "points" system or a category assessment. This is fairly common knowledge.

http://classiccars.about.com/od/buyingadvise/qt/ratingtip.htm?once=true&
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vintage_car
http://www.examiner.com/article/what-s-the-condition-of-your-classic-car-know-your-rating-number

I believe the AACA has a point system where the total points can get to 400; the MBCA had a similar profile, but went to a 100 point system.
Yes, there is a great correlation between Concours d'Elegance judging and a "point-rated" car.

In his price valuations, John Olson uses a category system, but does some correlation to points.

Your ersatz puzzlement does not fool me.  You are too smart for this, he who is restoring a 280SL car to a 100 point standard!!! 

[Benz Dr.]

A 400 point system would be a much higher level than a 100 point system in terms of detail. Spot of dust? Spec of grass? You loose.........

[mdsalemi]

A 400 point system would be a much higher level than a 100 point system in terms of detail. Spot of dust? Spec of grass? You loose.........

Not really.  They generally use whole numbers in the larger point systems, whereas in the 100-point systems, you can deduct things like 1/4 point...

[Nate]

Benz Dr., do you know where I can find detailed photographs of the guy's work in the Dominican Republic?  Are there any members out there who own one of his cars?

[zoegrlh]

I am a member of AACA, and the 400 point system works very well.  In judging a car, based on the official judging guidelines,  the points are deducted, based on condition.  There are max point deductions for different items, in the 4 areas judged, exterior, interior, chassis, engine,, max deductions for non-authentic paint color 40 pts, soft top if material is incorrect, 10 pts,  etc. etc.  I think that as a classic car the AACA is looking at examples of what a car would look like when coming from factory.  Also you must drive your car to on to the show field.  I think the MB concours is also looking at this in their 100 point system of judging.  I do like the two classes of MBNA, street and show.

Now with that said, I do think that this should push value .  If you have a 100 point Concurs, or a 400 point Senior or Grand Nation award winning car, values should be higher.
Bob

[dseretakis]

Check out what our cars have been doing in the past several months! The values are soaring to the stars. Check out what the graph has been doing since December!

http://www.hagerty.com/valuationtools/HVT/VehicleSearch/Report?vc=865182

[TR]

Yes, and be sure to also look at the percentage adders Hagerty now has for 4-spd & 5-spd manual transmissions, for a/c, and for a hardtop.

[Garry]

Behind every silver lining

The values will probably do what happened with the E Type Jaguar, that is they jumped big time for the 50th year and then slumped 25% the following year.  As Hagerty said, its  the 50 year factor. So all rush out and sell this year as next year, whilst all the parts prices will also rise accordingly, they will not have the comesurate fall next year so costs to keep your car going will rise sharply.  :'( :'(

[mdsalemi]

I think the values are being skewed by some recent sales from the Classic Center.  They have exceptional cars for sale, at exceptional prices.  I don't think they have a lock on exceptional cars, and don't think that private sales would command the same.

[dseretakis]

Perhaps this is just a temporary thing related to the 50th anniversary and to some classic center sales but I think it's more permanent.  190 SLs and 3.5 cabs are fetching in excess of 200K. Something is happening here.

[49er]

Behind every silver lining

The values will probably do what happened with the E Type Jaguar, that is they jumped big time for the 50th year and then slumped 25% the following year.  As Hagerty said, its  the 50 year factor.

 I (and my car) am looking forward to being around for the 60th anniversary. Wonder what the prices will be then

John

[dseretakis]

So the hagerty graphs show the same spike at the same time for the 190SL and the 3.5 cabs. I'm now convinced that this phenomenon is unrelated to the 50th anniversary!  How exciting!