Restoration Difficulty Level

[andyburns]

Cheers GGR, it all sounds a bit technical for my small brain!  I would have thought that you would need a positive pressure differential to suck the atomized fuel into the detonation chamber and if you didn't have that pressure differential your fuel could very quickly return to a non atomized state which may hinder detonation???  Anyway thats just my weird imagination at work its probably total rubbish.

I have another question for you guys.  I am putting back the clutch this afternoon and dont have anyway to align the clutch plate.  I have done a quick search on the internet and have found quite an interesting youtube vid done by a mechanic who swears alignment tools have slowed him down so he doesn't use them anymore.  He just does it by eye.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpE-RbZKw1c

I am thinking that as the engine and gearbox are out of the car I might give it a go and mate the gearbox up to the engine just for the purpose of testing the alignment. 

Am interested in other experience with this.  I have done a search in here and have found reference to using an old gearbox input shaft and also a cheap plastic tool.  I wonder if anyone in here has had success with doing it by eye.

[clembeauch63712]

 Hi Andy; I have done many clutches in my day from cars for different kinds to trucks. I have jury rigged a socket on an extention by fit as close as possible to move the clutch plate ever so slightly with the cover bolts in finger tight.. by eye and feeling around the edge of the pressure plate edge as a reference to guess the alignment. when I think it right I then tight the cover bolts a couple a turns at a time from opposite to opposite till tightened'' good luck.

[andyburns]

I am a clutch socket alignment tool convert.  Cant see the point in spending a single cent when you already have a socket set.  I spent most of the morning cleaning the garage (a bit) and getting the engine onto the crane and balance bar.  At this point I just didn't want any slip ups resulting in a dropped engine so I really took my time with the mounting points.

After I got the engine into the air went to work sorting through my large box of bolts for the correct ones.  I also just couldn't remember what did and didn't have washers under them when I took everything apart.  It really wasn't that long ago I stripped the engine and was getting very frustrated at my pitiful memory.  I had to spend a good hour looking back all the restoration photos to determine what went where.  I am so happy I have taken so many photos.  I would have hated to have done this job even 20 years ago before digital cameras.  I think I am now up to close on 4,000 photos.  Imagine paying for those to all get developed 20 years ago.  Probably cost more than the car!

After I managed to figure everything out the backing plate and flywheel were on within a matter of minutes.  I couldn't find anywhere in the BBB the torque settings so I just did them up bloody tight.  Its not going anywhere thats for sure.

 

[andyburns]

Then watched that youtube video of the pommy guy aligning the plate with nothing but a socket.  His setup was a bit easier as he has access to the clutch plate through gaps in the pressure plate.  The mercedes setup is somewhat different with the clutch and pressure plate sitting inside a deep lip on the outside edge of the firewall.  So there is no way to get your finger in and move the plate into a central position. 

Two sockets came to the rescue.  The smaller one was a perfect diameter to slot into the spigot on the end of the engine drive shaft.  This socket then fitted perfectly into a larger socket which had an outside diameter very close to that of spline on the clutch plate.  I made up the difference by wrapping an even layer of masking tape around the socket until they interfered with the spline and the spigot.

After that the clutch plate flew back on.  I jacked up the engine and eyeballed the setup with one eye to check everything was ok. 

Job done.

[andyburns]

While I was at it I decided to put the gearbox back on.  The clutch alignment was perfect.  Thrilled.  Cant wait to get it sitting back in the car.

[WRe]

Hi Andy,
wonderful work, congratulations.
I hope you haven't forgot the clutch release bearing.
...Wolfgang

[andyburns]

Thanks Wolfgang,  fortunately the thrust release bearing is exactly where its meant to be (touch wood), with a nice thin smear of grease over its mating surface ready for it to slide along the gearbox input shaft and make sweet love to that beautiful little clutch pressure plate.

[tel76]

Andy,
It does not seem a good idea to lift the engine with the small bolt on the cylinder head, you want a strap going around the lower part of the engine,  front and back.
The bolt that the chain appears to be on will break and that would ruin your day.

[andyburns]

Point taken Eric.  I did ponder this exact point for a good while this morning.  I will assess it again tomorrow.    It should be fine on the head stud at the rear.  I have seen plenty of engine being lifted like this.  I picked the one on the front of the engine as it has at least 2cm of thread into the block.  I am interested in where other people lift their engines from.

[andyburns]

I have been out this evening and determined that the cap screw I am using for my lift point is a high tensile M8 cap.  I am going to take Erics advice and not use it however it did spark my interest in how strong it actually is and how much weight the threads could take.

I did a google an found several manufactures spec sheets.   Most of them quoted around 8kN for the threads and 13 for the shank.   A figure of 8kN calculates out to around 815kg.  I would estimate the gearbox and engine to weigh no more than say 300kg.  Given I have two lifting points each would be bearing 150-200max.  So theoretically it should be ok.  Needless to say looking at its piddly proportions I am not going to risk it with so much money and time riding on it.  Good call Eric.

I am at a loss to figure out where I should hoist from.  I would like to keep the point as high as possible.  I am thinking of taking out one of main head bolts.

[Cees Klumper]

I've found nylon rope / band slings made for this purpose, with 'eyes' at their ends, work great, routed underneath and around the engine front and back. So rather than attaching to bolts or other, I just route thick nylon rope in such a fashion that the engine will be very secure. Typically you have to adjust just a bit when you start lifting, and the weight of the engine pulls everything tight.

[tel76]

 I have used wire rope in the past, you can also use the nylon strapping (about 2inch wide) that the car transporter people use, this incorporates the necessary clamps etc.
Whatever you use route it around the engine, much better that removing bolts/studs.

[stickandrudderman]

Old seat belts make perfect slings.

[andyburns]

Stick thats an awesome idea.  I have two seatbelt spare as well.   I am still interested to know if my piddly little M8 is actually stronger than a material strop.   Have any of you guys ever experienced a bolt or stud being pulled from the engine??

I may use some hyrid approach with my chains as a backup incase the strops failed.  I had a nasty dream last night that as I was hoisting the engine over the front nose cone everything let go and completley crumpled the front end.  I couldn't get back to sleep.

[Bonnyboy]

  I never had a bolt pull out but did have the boom of a hoist fail.  I didn't disconnect "that last little bolt" and yanked the whole front end of the car up and then the boom on the hoist started bending until the engine was resting on the floor - Pretty cool as it all happened in slow motion.    make sure your boom is strong enough to support your engine and a bit.

[andyburns]

Ian, there is no worries with that, the hoist is rated at one ton even on its furtherest reach.  That would have been a heart stopping moment for you.  You would definitley have a large medical bill if you were under an engine and gearbox combination falling from 5 feet!

[andyburns]

Seatbelts

I know the subject of seatbelts has been done to death in here but I just want to quickly run this past you guys.  I have acquired an excellent set of early belts which I have seen before in the very very first of the W108's.  They look much crisper in the flesh than under the harsh light of the camera flash.  Probably back in the day when they were an optional extra.   I am not sure if these were factory supplied or a dealer option.  The ticket on them suggests they were made in Germany.  

The belts I have are in exceptional condition and in a very dark charcoal color which matches my scheme beautifully.  I know a lot of you have converted to a modern setup but one of my objectives is to get the car back to how it was in both look and feel.  

I can not find any reference photos of early early 230sl belt set up and was wondering if this style was available.  Even if it wasn't I will probably run with these until I can source some more.  

 

[andyburns]

Huge car weekend.  I have sold my W108 parts car with the agreement that I could strip out whatever I wanted other than the engine, diff and brakes.  The new owner gave me two day notice that he would be picking up the car.  Yesterday was manic.  I woke early and made a list of all the 'stuff' that I might need to finish my resto.  Nothing worse than selling parts and then realizing that you have let something critical go and then have to turn around and source and buy the part again.

To make things much harder I can barley walk at the moment.  I really hurt my back quite badly putting the gearbox on the engine.  Pushed through the pain barrier and stripped the majority of the car back to a bare shell.  Took off all the parts that will sell well and anything that is in common with the 113... that I know about.

I have grown quite fond of her and it was a bit sad to see her being hauled onto the new owner trailer.  She is again going to be further cannibalized for a finny project.  Categorically she has saved me thousands of dollars and the sale price of parts are just about to pay for my new ash tray.  

The very last part she sacrificed up was her seat belts which I have used to put my engine back in the car.  Have taken on board all the advice and decided to use the belts as the main lifting mech backed up with the chains.

[andyburns]

Decided to push on and try and get the engine back in the car.  Home alone with the wife and my mother in law.  I got both of them on the job, one either side of the car as lookouts for me as I edged the engine back in.  It took a good two hours but finally mated it with it mounts late this afternoon.  If I had a couple of other good experienced car fella's it would have only taken half the time but I decided I have waited for long enough and my impatience got the better off me.

I did hit one nasty little side issue which took me a good 20 minutes to figure out.  I inadvertently bolted the right hand side engine mount arm upside down on the block.  Sitting on the rubber engine mounts the angles just didn't add up and would never have worked.   Put it right and very quickly I had the engine exactly where I wanted it.

Hopefully the rest of it will fly back together.  I want the engine turning in two weeks!

[GGR]

Congratulations! You must be feeling really good! Psychologically, having the engine back in the car with the transmission and the rear axle feels like being nearly there, the car back together!

I guess all went well but I got worried when I saw your set-up with the belts not secured on each end of the bar. It looks like the most frontwards could have slipped down when you tilted the engine and trans to get them into the car.

[andyburns]

Thanks GGR, cant wait to here the sound of the engine again.   Its been two years almost and I just want the thing mobile and usable.  I have resigned myself to the likely hood that once I fire it back up and start test driving it that at least one of the major components will have to come out again due to something moronic I have done.  Time will tell.

Re the seat belts slipping, I did think carefully about that and the additional chain would have stopped anything slipping.  I used the seat belt length adjustment to pull the belts up slightly shorted the chain so when the tension went on if the belt slipped the chain would catch it.  It worked really well.

I did have to get the engine at quite an acute angle to clear the cross member.  I considered taking a photo at that point but it meant me taking my hands off which I wasn't keen to do.

[andyburns]

Have been laid up for most of the day with a dodgy back.  Lying flat on my back soon got a bit too much and I couldn't resist some light duties in the garage.  Managed to get the drive shaft bolted back.  Tried to crawl into the cabin  and hook back up the gearbox linkages through the inspection panel on the central tunnel.  Couldn't find a comfortable position to sit in while doing the work and the only angle that worked felt as if someone was thrusting a switch blade into the base of my spine.  Retreated quickly and sought out some more placid work.

Decided to work on the wiring loom.  Figured I have to get this right before I am able to move on with the manifolds.  The loom runs under the exhaust manifold and takes a fair amount of punishment with all the localized heat in this area.

My loom has some pretty dangerous wiring to be honest.  Quite a few of the heavy gauge voltage bearing cables have next to no insulation left on them.  I hate to think what would happen if they ever shorted out.  The main battery feed also has a inch long section with no insulation.  The cable is not fused and given its ability to handle huge amounts of current serious serious damage could result if it shorted.  Its also run within mm of the block.

Over the next couple of days I will chip away and replace or repair all of the damage.  Its one area I would suggest you guys check next time your car is on the hoist.  Pretty much all the cabling under the manifolds on my car were affected.  None are visible from the top of the engine bay.

[GGR]

"Yes doctor, with a backhake, lying on my back in bed or under the car connecting the driveshaft is just about the same!"

When I see your alternator cable, it reminds me of the + going to the main switch behind the dashboard one on my '62 Coupe. The insulation had deteriorated all the way with age and was crumbling into pieces. It was not visible because it was in a black tubing together with other wires. You should check that.

[andyburns]

GGR, I like your style.  I am off to the doctors today and no doubt will be having a conversation very similar to the one you have described *lol*.   The pain has got so bad I am almost bed ridden.  Hopefully some good drugs will sort it out!

I will be chasing all the deteriorated wires back into the loom.   I have experienced the same issue on a bmw 2002 in the past and it had catastrophic consequences.  One of the deteriorated cables earthed out under the dash and acted like a hot knife slicing through a bundle of other wires, heating up and burning off all their insulation.  They in turn then did the same.   At the time the car was parked in the main street of our local township while I was in a fish an chip shop with a friend waiting for some dinner.  My mate looked out the window and saw a fire truck straddled half way across the road with smoke billowing over the top.  

It wasn't until 5 minutes latter that my order was ready that I went out and discovered it was my car.  Very very fortunately the chief on the fire crew was a car enthusiast who through very quickly on his feet and instead of pumping several thousand gallons of water through the window he deployed some sort of gas canister to put out the fire.  It still did a huge amount of damage.  BMW couldn't supply me a loom and only had the loose wire so I spent a couple of hundred hours making a loom up from scratch.  Very tedious work.

I am keen not to make a repeat performance!

[GGR]

You were lucky! It reminds me of a story that happened to me 18 years ago: I was with some friends spending holidays in Greece with motorbikes. One afternoon we were coming back from the Meteors to the camping me and my girlfriend on the bike. While we were reaching our tent the German lady in the tent next to us came out making big gestures and threw a bucket full of water at us and the bike. We were quite surprised, but by the time we got off the bike we realized it was on fire! Same thing, a wire shorted and the loom cought fire under the seat. It is still a mistery how we could have been riding on a bike which was on fire without realizing it. It is also a mistery how that German lady could see it so quickly, and even more how she had a bucket full of water ready to be thrown at us. It could have been the hidden camera but unfortunately the fire was real. I spent the night rebuilding my loom on the camping table. Amazingly, I could find all kind of wires of different sizes and colors and all what was needed to solder them right there in the little village down the Meteors. I still have the bike and it still runs on that repaired loom!