Author Topic: Restoration Difficulty Level (Read 947184 times)

andyburns · « **Reply #1225 on:** November 03, 2014, 22:50:00 »

Thank GGR, were you thinking about the spring issue referred to in that post. My distributor and spring are standard so I am not sure if it applies to me? Let me know if I have missed something and I will take another careful look at it.

GGR · « **Reply #1226 on:** November 04, 2014, 00:14:41 »

Yes, I was thinking about the spring issue. However, I don't know about the details, as my car is different. If it doesn't apply to your car then you're good.

Edit: I had read your earlier post too fast and assumed you were fitting a 123 distributor, not Pertronix. So my comment is irrelevant.

114015 · « **Reply #1227 on:** November 04, 2014, 01:25:00 »

Quote

The breather pipes that vent excess fumes out of the rocker cover and back into the inlet manifold. For some reason they are terribly rusted up inside.

Hello Andy,

The breather pipes are rusted out from inside because of condensation water within the engine after start up.

It's not excess fumes.
I had exactly the same problem as you have, same amount of rust. I also could only get the 16 mm tube as a replacement.
I cut off short pieces from the new material in order to replace only the rusty ends..., if you want you can cut into the new pipe with a grinder (longitudinal) and weld it together again. By that way you can reduce the outer diameter a bit. I didn't go too crazy on this, just wanted to have my pipes finished and not spending another 300 $$ for stupid replacments.

A pic tells more than a thousand words, please see attached.

Achim
(having mostly the same problems as Andy)

114015 · « **Reply #1228 on:** November 04, 2014, 01:48:40 »

Hello Andy,

A couple of points to discuss ...

a)

Quote

I am also interested in the history of the early rough cast rocker covers and when they were phased out. Perhaps Achim with his incredible factory knowledge might know?

No...., Achim doesn't know that. Again he does not know that with these details ...

:'( They had this rough cast rocker cover quite for a while ... but 49er's former 250 SL had already a smooth rocker cover ...

b) Your alternator
All the necessary bushings in the mounting hardware of the early 230 alternator assembly are still available from the dealer. Some of the rubber is quite expensive but at least available. Fiddled also around with some selfmade rubber spacers first (I can't machine down teflon ...) but failed with that. So I went the way and bought new rubbers. It's worth the effort.

c) Your distributor
I am very surprised to see that your Pertronix unit went in easily. It did not at all in my case. However, I have got the 046 dizzy and you have got the earlier VJUR6 BR49T (= 040). But to me the both dizzies look exactly the same from inside (I have both distirbutors).
Quintessence: we had to modify the base plate of the dizzy and also the mounting bracket for the hall sensor a bit to make everything working properly.
Please, what was your order number? Maybe I got the wrong Pertronix set (the person who sold that to me is _the_ expert on this in Germany ...).

Well ...?
Unbelievable how much effort is necessary in every little not, bolt and bit of our cars ...

Best,

Achim
(fellow sufferer)

andyburns · « **Reply #1229 on:** November 04, 2014, 05:09:58 »

Thanks for your response Achim. I am almost certain that you have been sold the wrong pertronix kit for you diz. I have fitted them to my 280se, 250s and now my 230sl. All fitted perfectly with no modification required at all. You have to be very careful with the kit number though. The one for the 230sl was a 1684A. The 1684 (with no A on the end) was what I fitted to the 280se which I suspect will have an identical diz setup to the 280sl.

The alternator bushes are currently off with my good friend Rodger K who is turning up the finishing touches for me. He has also taken off my hands the job of trying to free up the blockages in the injection pipes with a very ingenious home made hydraulic pump setup. I owe him a great deal as I am simply not able to do some of this stuff at the moment and keeping things going really keeps my spirits up.

I had another hospital visit today for a follow up MRI and decided to use the outing as an excuse to do 230sl stuff. Picked up my pipes from the benders. They didn't turn out as well as I would have liked as they couldn't reproduce the very tight radius factory bends in quick succession so I ended up getting two pipes that I had to weld up. Doesn't look as good but after I dress the welds back and gold plate them I think they will look quite factory. I only paid 50NZD for the bending which is considerably cheaper than the original part.

Also had another coup with the hub caps. The guy who rented me his paint booth has over the past couple of months been constantly phoning me for help with his computer. I have actually saved him hundreds after his one completely shat itself and I helped him buy a new one in component form and built it up for him. Anyone I called in a favor today and asked him to paint the hub caps for me. I could have done it myself but am in desperate need of a new gun and respirator which would have cost hundreds. As it turned out he was more than happy to do it for me for free so the decision was made.

Picking up the caps to put them in the back of the car I noticed that what I actually had was less than perfect. Two of them had bad chrome and another one had dents. I phoned my chrome man and he quoted me 200 each for the chroming and another 100-200 to take out the dents on the one cap. I didn't like the sound of that and immediately started looking for alternatives. Funds are atrociously low at the moment so any savings it fantastic.

A friend of mine owns a mercedes parts company so I gave him a call. He has heaps of old parts including an impressive set of old hub caps. Very generously he swapped my less than perfect ones for much for perfect examples. Very very very appreciative. Thanks Kev!

Dropped the caps at the painter and went over the caps with him. We found a couple of them with dents that I hadn't noticed. He immediately told me not to worry and is going to have them looked at by the dent devil who does amazing paintless dent removal work here in auckland. I will be interested to see what he can do.

So all in all a great day, making up for the really lousy one I had a couple of days ago.

Dave H · « **Reply #1230 on:** November 04, 2014, 23:00:05 »

Hi Andy . Still loving your thread by the way !
Sat having a cup of tea before bed and I'm thinking about why your rocker cover won't come off .
Your engines too far back.
Only thing I can think of that would do this is your front axle leaf spring bolt eccentric adjustment.
This draws the subframe/engine forwards and backwards and in your case out from under the bonnet catch.

" I think "...... what do you think ?

GGR · « **Reply #1231 on:** November 04, 2014, 23:10:23 »

Another possibility is that the engine mount brackets are not original w113. Brackets look similar on w108, 111 etc. but they are not the same and the position of the engine is slightly different relative to the front axle. Check the part numbers on them. also make sure they are not interverted right and left, as they look symmetrical but are not.

Garry · « **Reply #1232 on:** November 04, 2014, 23:17:13 »

Many years ago when I changed my gearbox for a Getrag in my old 280, I put in new engine mounts. I then had difficulty getting the valve cover off and jacked the engine up ever so slightly with a piece of wood to protect ti. It worked and after some months apparently the mounts settled a bit and with effort and a lot of jigling I was able to remove the valve cover.

Garry

andyburns · « **Reply #1233 on:** November 05, 2014, 05:35:17 »

Garry, I agree with you. Have been thinking about it all day. The front of the engine is high compared to the gearbox so it must either be one of three things or a combination.

1) New engine mounts havn't settled and are a tad to high
2) The subframe to body mounts have collapsed which would bring the subframe and the engine closer to the body.
3) The gearbox mount is collapsed which would move the gearbox closer to the ground and tilt the engine.

I replaced my engine mounts with brand new units and reused the rest which looked as if they had been recently replaced. Am picking my issue is number 1 listed about. Guess time will tell.

I am wondering however if the additional packers under the gearbox mount I referred to in one of my earlier posts were to try and overcome this exact problem.

andyburns · « **Reply #1234 on:** November 05, 2014, 06:15:25 »

Pottered around today doing bits and pieces. Finished off the first of the breather pipes. Took extra time to linish back the welds to the point they are hardly noticeable. Just need to sort the other pipe which will require a bit more though to mate it to the banjo fitting. I have cut the banjo off the old pipe and it looks as if its been brazed in place. More though needed.

Also tackled the stuff up with the sealing of the cold start plate. Pulled it back off and cleaned up all the sealant. Kicking myself. I think I am going to leave this off now and get the jets tested properly.

With the help of my wife I have also managed to mount the drivers seat. Great feeling sitting in it without them wobbling around all over the show.

andyburns · « **Reply #1235 on:** November 05, 2014, 21:06:51 »

I decided this morning to take another look at the rocker cover issue. I have been reading with interest the current thread on the drive shaft rubber coupling and have gleaned a few essential pieces of info from that. I am going to pull off the large transmission support plate and check this whole assembly again. Not sure how I have positioned my bolts and nuts other than copying what came off the car. Not so trusting of the last mechanics that worked on it now.

Anyway while I was there I decided to jack the gearbox up and see how far it took before the engine leveled up enough to remove the rocker cover. I would estimate it was at least 15mm before the back of the engine was level enough.

I have one 3-4mm packer in there already that was with the car when I purchased it. I am now in a bit of a quandary to figure out what to do next with this problem. The car now has most of its weight on the front suspension so I am assuming that the levels I am looking at are around what I will end up with. Just the fluids, radiator and bonnet to add to the mix.

Should I bite the bullet and pull and replace the gearbox and sub frame mounts. Are my aftermarket brand new engine mounts to high? How do you tell?

I got a bit overwhelmed and decided to do something fun so I fitted up my new sheepskin rugs. I have also ordered a matching sheepskin fluffy dice to match. What do you guys think

Dave H · « **Reply #1236 on:** November 05, 2014, 21:38:22 »

looks like your engine could be too far back , rather than high.
The caster adjustment eccentric cam bolts on the leaf springs will do this .
They move your whole engine and front axle ,forwards and backwards relative to the centre of the front wheel to create caster.
So the car is leading the wheels like on a shopping trolley.
Power steering needs 5mm shorter springs than manual as caster is less. 243 v/s 248mm.
The eccentric cam bolt has about a 12mm offset .Turn it and it pivots the subframe about its mount, this in turn moves the engine in the opposite direction.
You also loosen the rear engine support to allow the engine to move fore and aft in its slotted hole when you set caster.
Turn the cam bolts it may move your engine forward 1/2" and out from under the bracket .
Engine forward means more positive camber etc.
Worth a try .

Dave H · « **Reply #1237 on:** November 05, 2014, 21:51:59 »

Poor drawing but could it be ?

GGR · « **Reply #1238 on:** November 05, 2014, 23:03:41 »

Andy,

did you check your engine arm brackets? If they are out of a sedan your engine will sit too high (and dent your hood when you hit a pothole). Look at the part numbers on them.

Also, power steering cars are equipped with rear leaf bushings with more excentricity to allow for more caster. Given that you fitted power steering, if you did not do it already, look into these different bushings as they will push the engine a bit forward and help your issue in the process.

andyburns · « **Reply #1239 on:** November 06, 2014, 02:10:18 »

Dave, I hadn't considered this. I marked them when they came out and reset them to exactly the same place. In saying that who know who has been at it in the past! Definitely worth throwing into the mix as well. Thank you very much sir.

I desperately want to get this right but at the same time have a pitiful knowledge on what I am doing and how to set these cars up correctly.

GGR, I definitely have the right arms. 127 part numbers on them from memory. I have 108 arms that I compared with these when they were out of the car. As you say there is a huge difference with the 113 arms sitting much lower in the engine bay.

Have had an interesting day on the car. Will write it all up tonight.

getsmart · « **Reply #1240 on:** November 06, 2014, 05:21:51 »

Geeze Andy you're getting so close to finishing......must feel like someone is dangling a carrot in front of you

Joe

andyburns · « **Reply #1241 on:** November 06, 2014, 09:27:42 »

Joe, it looks close but is in fact quite some distance off still. Starting the engine just took a step backwards today. I discovered that the blocked cold start hard lines are not the same as my 108 pipes. Dont know where I am a going to get another one from or if its even possible to manufacture one from scratch.

Its not all doom and gloom though. I managed to get the wiring all up and running today. Mounted up all the remaining relays and paint stripped all the earthing points and then wired up. Neat to sit in the drivers seat and see the instrument cluster light up, the horns blasting and here the ventilation fan turning over.

Also Rodger dropped by with the modified alternator bushes which I fitted up as well. Worked out perfectly thanks Rodger. Absolute master on the lathe.

getsmart · « **Reply #1242 on:** November 06, 2014, 11:11:50 »

Just fantastic though Andy....its a fast growing carrot ! Everything little thing you are doing now is taking you one big step closer !!! I'm your motivator, not just me, all of us on here !!!! We're all riding it with you !

andyburns · « **Reply #1243 on:** November 08, 2014, 05:22:25 »

Havn't done much over the past couple of days as my back has been quite sore again. Today I decided to tinker around with some easy stuff. The dash wood has been a problem for quite some time. I was going to replace it but just cant afford it anymore and will put up with the few imperfections mine has.

First job was to get the fit correct. From the factory my set didn't fit too well with the two bows needing quite a bit of force to get the mounting studs into the holes in the dash. So much so that the left hand bow had so much force on it that it bent in the middle and lifted off the dash. This had a knock on effect of ripping out one of the studs which has always been missing in action.

I used my dremel to carefully cut back the edge which tucks under the A pillar molding. Took about five or six goes to get it right. Once I had the two pieces of wood sitting as they should with only a minimal amount of tension on them I glued in a new stud to replace the missing one. Used Q bond to do this. Tested that it wouldn't pull out by putting some fairly sturdy pressure on it. Held up well and is probably now stronger than when it left the factory.

While I was fitting up the wood during the course of the day I realized I have made a mistake by soldering the speaker to the wires. From the factory it had two small crimp type push on connector. I wanted something a bit sturdier that was also insulated given the tight clearances so decided to solder. Problem being that you really need to remove the speaker to fit the wood. There are two of the nut holding the wood directly behind the speaker.

Cut the speaker wire and started again. This time I purchased an insulated quick release connector block. Soldered one end back on the speaker using heat shrink to make sure I insulated as much of the speaker terminals as possible. If you end up shorting these out you will quickly blow your amplifier which is an expensive proposition to put right in this day and age.

andyburns · « **Reply #1244 on:** November 09, 2014, 19:53:01 »

Yesterday I decided to have a crack at clearing the cold start jets. I have no idea how its operated in the past as it seem completely blocked. I have tried compressed air from both ends and also a very fine pick in the openings to see if I could free it up. No joy. Decided to use a bit of heat so got out my 120W gas soldering iron. The only non accessible internal part of the jets is the small block containing the jets themselves. You have internal access all the way down to this via the small inspection nut so I knew we were good to this point.

After about one minute of heat I got quite a puff of smoke. I stopped and let it cool. At this point I was freely able to blow through it with just the pressure of my mouth. Repeated on the other side with the same result. Guess years of carbon build up or old fuel residue was responsible.

Also fitted up the awesome teflon bushes, mark II, that Rodger turned up for me. We ended up machining up some small inserts into the bush as the teflon wasn't sturdy enough to take the force of the nut being done up on it alone and was swelling causing the alternator arm to stiffen up too much.

andyburns · « **Reply #1245 on:** November 09, 2014, 23:15:29 »

Decided to bit the bullet this morning and weld up the breather pipe to the old banjo. I was a bit worried as its such a thin wall and I only have one banjo. In the end the saving grace is that I decided to just trim off the old pipe which was crimped inside the banjo flush with the face. I gave me more meat to weld to. If I had machined it out of the banjo I estimate I would have been left with about .5mm wall to work with.

Dressed back both parts and turned the welder right down as far as it would go. The result is ok and I managed to get quite good penetration into both pieces. The weld dressed back ok. I used my dremel for that work. Will send it all off to the gold platers this week.

First I have to figure out how to unblock my injection pipes!

andyburns · « **Reply #1246 on:** November 10, 2014, 06:25:34 »

Worked on the center speaker again this arvo. I purchased a speaker mount kit from authentic classic. Wasn't as straight forward as I would have liked. The slots in the dash that the tabs slot into needed to be enlarged slightly to get it to fit properly. It should work out nicely.

I have also been working on the wood ready for its final fit up. I makes me feel quite ill having to put it back in. Even though its original its pretty shabby now compared to the rest of the car.

The 280se was finally picked up as well. Was a very sad day seeing it being trundled off down the road. A lot of blood sweat and tears went into bring it back from the brink. Upside is I now have space in the garage to work on the 230. The space almost seems decadent. I really envy Scott and other guys who have proper workshops and gear. I am so sick of working on everything on the ground. Makes everything seem five times as hard, especially with a bad back!

Jkalplus1 · « **Reply #1247 on:** November 10, 2014, 12:07:32 »

Re: injection pipes, did you consider boiling them to loosen up whatever gunk may be in there? A friendly mechanic might let you borrow one of the large metal pans they have, you wrap the outside with thick layers of aluminum foil and make a fire. Boil the pipes, then you peel off the foil and the pan is clean. Never tried it myself, but maybe this can work?

andyburns · « **Reply #1248 on:** November 10, 2014, 15:25:40 »

Jkalplus1, I have considered heat as an option. Already taken a lpg blow torch to it with no luck. Not to sure if your talking about boiling it with water?

At the moment I have injected acid into them and with gravity hoping it might eat away at the blockage. Last resort I am going to take them into the acid strippers to put in batch for a couple of days. Dont think it will work personally.

The main injection lines are replaceable as they are identical to the W108's. I happen to have two spare sets sitting around. But the cold start valve line seems particular to the 113. This is going to be a real pain in the A to replace if I cant unblock it. Not sure quite what to do at this stage. Looking as if its going to be a bit of a show stopper!

andyburns · « **Reply #1249 on:** November 11, 2014, 06:22:36 »

Clean up day today. Have set up a trestle in the footprint of the freshly departed 280se. Fantastic not having to kneel down to work. Have hauled in all the remaining parts from the outside lockup. Its now the first time in over two years that all the car is in the same garage. Quite a moment.

Have started looking at the soft top. Think it might be next in my targets. Looks like quite a big job that no doubt will have just as big a learning curve. I have decided to leave the hard top for 'another time'. Probably will have a year or two's break before I tackle it.

Moved on this afternoon to another small job. Really want to push to finish off all the wiring in the car. Quite close now. I routed the last of the heavy 8 gauge power cable in the engine bay for the audio system. The cable needed to be connected in a couple of places and also four spade terminals for the battery, earth strap and two at the 100amp circuit breaker.

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Author Topic: Restoration Difficulty Level (Read 947184 times)

Jkalplus1