Author Topic: Restoration Difficulty Level (Read 946944 times)

tel76 · « **Reply #1550 on:** March 19, 2015, 08:49:54 »

Andy,
Have another careful look at your soft top, you will find there is the facility for the wire to slide through, you may have to make your own slit at the forward end to accommodate the wire, the channel will be there, you also fit the rubber sealer in conjunction with the wire.

mbzse · « **Reply #1551 on:** March 19, 2015, 09:08:46 »

Quote from: andyburns

.../... thin wire, threaded through the soft top fabric, between the A and B pillar. Looks as if they were used to keep the tension on the top so it wouldn't flap and the glass to soft top junction

That is exactly so. Essential for a comfortable ride w/o wind noise or flapping.
The thick rubber strip is glued to the soft top fabric. Both wire and rubber are there for a purpose, like Eric writes, and were there on each Pagoda car from factory.

Quote

very nice if the top came with a quick one page instruction guide

There are instructions with step-by-step pictures offered out there. For instance:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercedes-DB-W113-Pagode-Cabrio-Verdeck-Einbau-Anleitung-/360247157679

Quote

../.. vinyl I have glued to the the soft top [front] frame

yes, there were (are) specifications for these various areas of the interior of the Pagoda. A small number of light vinyl shades were available at the time, and this was not a choice for the buyer. It was determined by the colour code for the interior. What is your code?
/Hans in Sweden
.

andyburns · « **Reply #1552 on:** March 19, 2015, 09:12:05 »

Cheers Tel. I am still getting quite worried about it as I research further. SLS list early and late soft tops. The early ones show what looks like an opening across the top where it meets the bow. Two very differently distinct top designs.

Also I am still unsure if the early 230s are the only cars to have the wire. Can someone confirm if a late 280sl does.

I have emailed the vendor with photos and asked for clarification on how I am suppose to make it work. Will be interesting as it was now over a year since the order was placed.

andyburns · « **Reply #1553 on:** March 19, 2015, 09:14:28 »

Thanks Hans,

My original color code for the interior was ivory but I have changed it to black leather. What do you think this would have done to the color of the soft top frame I refer too?

mbzse · « **Reply #1554 on:** March 19, 2015, 09:27:05 »

Hi Andy,
Black leather on a 230SL, that is code 201. Such a car has Sun shades in vinyl code Grey 2108 and the HardTop inner vinyl White 3050.
The spec is not so clear on the front soft top bow, however all parts on the dash, inner A-pillar and various other parts of interior were covered in black leather.
Your car from factory, I do not see a colour "ivory" in our Wiki. What number is in your data card? Is that White grey (Weissgrau) 5102
/Hans in Sweden

andyburns · « **Reply #1555 on:** March 19, 2015, 09:32:56 »

Thanks Hans. I may end up leaving it. At the moment its a light ivory color very close to the factory headlining in the hardtop.. Just look a bit strange sandwiched between black and tan. Have just been out and have discovered where the wire runs in the top. Now just have to sort out how the rear wooden bow attaches to top.

andyburns · « **Reply #1556 on:** March 19, 2015, 09:40:50 »

It looks like sls offer two colors fir the hood lining. Either tan or black. I would have preferred black. The tan doesnt go very well at all with silver and black leather. Was never given the option

mbzse · « **Reply #1557 on:** March 19, 2015, 10:02:33 »

Quote from: andyburns

It looks like sls offer two colors fir the hood lining. Either tan or black

They do. The black is totally non-original however.
From factory our cars were only delivered with the inside of the soft top in tan herringbone pattern Sonnenland fabric.
/Hans in Sweden

andyburns · « **Reply #1558 on:** March 21, 2015, 21:55:00 »

The soft top saga goes on. I have contacted both the vendor and GAHH. GAHH have come back to me and acknowledged that they have never done a top for the early 230's and are in the process of suggesting some modifications. Still waiting on the procedure. Will let you know. I have also spoken with SLS about the tops and they instantly informed me I needed the correct early open top to make it work without 'further modification'. They sell both versions.

Today I have decided to press ahead and get the soft top mechanism all lined up and operating smoothly. Dont know if this is the thing to do or is a waste of time without the soft top material fitted but I just need to keep on going. Sitting and waiting is driving me nuts.

The setup of the frame was quite fiddly. I had to play around with the shims to get the levels even on both sides. I also had a bit of a nightmare with the rear bow which locks down into the hatch cover. It locked all right but then it wouldn't unlock. An hour latter and quite a bit of time spent on my side inside the boot and I managed to hook the latch and release it. Next job is to attach a release wire and leave it dangling in the boot in case I ever have another issue with the locking mechanism. The problem was sorted easily by adjusting the central pivot point on the new cable. Operates with ease now. Also got both the hatch release locks both opening simultaneously which makes a huge difference. Before the drivers side was opening way before the the passengers side resulting in the hatch jumping up on one side sooner than the other which isn't too good. Now all three pop together.

Moved on to setting up my door glass and doing a final tighten up. I know I should do this with the hard top first but just want the car going and back on the road registered, warranted and usable in the month. The hard top will take far longer to complete and I intend to replace all the seals on it which will more than likely change the way it sits on the car. Most of the seal are almost disintegrated and I think as a result the top would sit closer to the car than it would with fresh seals.

Getting the glass right took quite a bit of patience as well. Once your familiar with all the adjustments the second one is much quicker. Spent a further half an hour per door chasing any perceivable rattles and sorting out rubber block etc to solve the problems. Silent rattle free doors are a must in my mind. Nothing worse and more frustrating than having to put up with clunking or rattling especially on long runs.

So now I am in a position to fit up my door cards. I know these are going to be a royal pain in the ass as well. My initial trial fit almost drove me crazy. You could make the job easier by getting rough and bending the cards. But after so much money, time and care has been lavished on these I will be taking a very careful approach.

I am contemplating gluing waterproof material to the back of the cards rather than the door. For the life of me I cannot understand why they didn't do this at the factory. As far as I can tell the only thing your trying to protect is the cardboard backing board. Water will always get in on the outer lip of the doors, between the glass and the outer brush seal. But this water to my mind will typically dribble down the outer face of the door and drain through the factory holes in the base.

Can anyone give me a good reason why you need to seal the door rather than protect just the door card.

tel76 · « **Reply #1559 on:** March 22, 2015, 08:31:43 »

Andy,
Correct me if I am wrong but you appear to be missing the two rubber buffers that fit at the front of the rear steel bow, there purpose is to stop the soft top cover from being marked when you pull the lever to release the soft top cover/rear locking catch (they fit with the buffer down).
They are available at MB and are cheap, probably because the part # has changed from a 113 # to a 107#, I can give you the part # tomorrow if you wish I have just ordered two.
It was my intention to replace the rubber buffers that fit at the bottom of the soft top B pillar(they screw onto the soft top B pillar at the bottom and butt onto the chrome cap when the soft top is up, but when I got the price I decided the old ones were serviceable. MB want £68 EACH plus 20% vat, I have asked my local stealer to query this price.
Dick Turpin and Robin Hood are alive and well in Stuttgart.

andyburns · « **Reply #1560 on:** March 22, 2015, 08:39:40 »

Thanks Eric. Not sure where these pne fit up to. Any chance of a photo so i can get my bearings. I have the two rubber b pillar units both in good condition thankfully.

tel76 · « **Reply #1561 on:** March 22, 2015, 08:59:26 »

Hello Andy,
Have a look at SLS and go to 77a soft top the buffer is item 68 and it slides onto the item above it, the rear bow is adjustable with two bolts either side, remove these bolts and lift of the rear bow off, you then slide on the rubbers onto the male arms that the rear bow locates on.
SLS gives you the MB part #
I can do you a picture tomorrow if you are still unsure.

andyburns · « **Reply #1562 on:** March 22, 2015, 09:09:46 »

My foray into fitting the door panel back on wasn't initially to successful. They are an absolute mongrel to get right. Getting them seating into all the various channels and clips takes quite a bit of patience and gentle coaxing. Especially if you have leather which tends to be a bit thicker. It a very tight squeeze to get the boards into the 4mm chrome channels at the bottom and front of the door. I to the panel clipped at the top and then shuffled it toward the front of the car into the the forward channel and then put my arm behind the panel and put a careful bow in it so I could drop the bottom edge into its correct position.

Anyway got everything in place and everything was going swimmingly until I decided to stand back and admire my work from every angle. Shut the door to see if everything was clearing and heard a horrible thwank twang noise. Horrible feeling ensued.

After a bit of investigation the problem was identified. Half the door check mechanism was afloat and was able to be pulled from the door. The pins which hold the two halves had somehow both made there way inwards and the two parts had parted company.

Nothing left to do but strip the door again. All I could do was laugh. Probably better to happen now while it was all fresh on my mind.

I actually made quick work of the strip out and soon had the parts on the bench ready for repair. The two small pins have an interference pattern cut into them and are pressed into a tight fitting hole in the door check. Once the pins have been knocked out and refitted a couple of time the interference has obviously worn off a tad.

Time to get brutal as the only other option is to replace which for me is currently not an option. Out came the welder and I can safely say the pin are not going to move in a hurry. I think I will do the same to the passenger side as well.

The panel re- refit took about an hour in total. Am tickled pink with the result. It looks much better in the flesh than in the photo. Will move on to the other side tomorrow. Expect it will take me less than half the time.

andyburns · « **Reply #1563 on:** March 22, 2015, 09:18:36 »

Cheer Eric. I will chase that up soon and get back to you if its not obvious.

Another thing I did today was to also go ahead with my plan of waterproofing the door card rather than applying a plastic wrap on the door. I hate the idea of having to continually break the door seal to work on the mechanisms within. I am certain I will have to do this in the upcoming months as my hard top is completed and I have to adjust up the glass again.

I glued up my closed cell foam and then taped the edges with PVC tape effectively waterproofing the entire card. As an added bonus it became immediately apparent that the extra 2mm of foam is acting beautifully as a sound deaden er. Actually quite a measurable difference to the other card I haven't yet attacked.

andyburns · « **Reply #1564 on:** March 22, 2015, 09:29:13 »

Hi Eric. Checked out sls site and found the part. I dont have them and only vaguely know where they go. I would very much appreciate a photo of them in situ. What happens if these are missing. I am also currently trying to source the two curley springs that help tension the side panels of the soft top. There is always so much to learn about these little cars. I have been amazed at actually how complicated and fiddly they were. No robot in the modern world would have a show on the 113 production line.

Larry & Norma · « **Reply #1565 on:** March 22, 2015, 09:36:54 »

Hi Andy, I came to the conclusion that the curly spring things are there to stop the soft top material being
trapped by the latch mechanism. They are not always effective hence the redesigned latch mechanism on
later tops.

andyburns · « **Reply #1566 on:** March 22, 2015, 09:39:35 »

Thanks larry. Buds have a pair for 40usd. Do you think its worth getting them. I guess it will be another original feature ticked off.

mbzse · « **Reply #1567 on:** March 22, 2015, 10:43:24 »

Quote from: andyburns

.../...the two curley springs that help tension the side panels of the soft top.../...

Yes, perhaps you noted this post in the Forum were these wires/springs were discussed:
http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=21178.0
/Hans in Sweden

Larry & Norma · « **Reply #1568 on:** March 22, 2015, 12:29:58 »

Hi Andy, I bought a pair but had problems fitting then so left them off. I do not have the latches installed and
use a strap attached to the rear most bow which I pull to keep the bows together when raising the sot top.
I just hated the thought of holes appearing in my newly fitted top!

I found fitting the new top fairly easy, but should be done in warm weather. It will be very tight to begin with, took
two of us to latch it the first few times but will stretch and become easier.

Cheers
Larry

114015 · « **Reply #1569 on:** March 23, 2015, 23:39:22 »

Dear Andy!

Quote

The soft top saga goes on. I have contacted both the vendor and GAHH. GAHH have come back to me and acknowledged that they have never done a top for the early 230's and are in the process of suggesting some modifications. Still waiting on the procedure. Will let you know. I have also spoken with SLS about the tops and they instantly informed me I needed the correct early open top to make it work without 'further modification'. They sell both versions.

That's correct. It's a bit tricky.

A friend of mine got a (black) softtop canvas from GAHH. It fitted just perfect on his '68 280 SL.
Ordered mine through GAHH as well indicating my built year (1964). Got the same canvas, was told it would fit my early 1964 230 with wooden bow (like yours) but it did not quite.
The professional (Udo R.), who put on my canvas, was a bit annoyed. He did not open the top over the upper wooden bow but just put it on. That's not the real problem. The main problem is that it was (and still is) a very tight fit. Basically, the late-stype softtop canvas is a bit too small for the wooden-bow softtop-230ies. Nevertheless, my top(even though it is literally the wrong one) looks great. After a couple of months with the ST up it's getting better. The chrome strip was put on by him as well. That was no problem at all.

Quintessence:
Looks great but in general I recommend using the proper early-style softtop-canvas for your car (e.g. from SLS or so) - especially if you plan putting it on yourself.

Good luck,
Achim

andyburns · « **Reply #1570 on:** March 24, 2015, 04:43:26 »

Thanks guys. Appreciate the feedback. Jack from GAHH and I have been bouncing dozens of email over the past 24 hours. He has been very helpful and has offered to send me over some more matching material to wrap the wooden bow. I dont really have any other option to be honest. I just wish they would have warned me on day one and I would have steered well clear. Its really slowing me down again. Probably have to wait another couple of weeks before the bits turn up and I can proceed.

As Achim has pointed out the tops are beautifully made and to all intents look very easy to fit. Touch wood.

Achim, I would very much appreciate if you could take a few quick snaps of your roof up showing exactly where the chrome garnish molding is positioned relative to the rear seam line. Did they punch the nails through the stitching or is is offset 10mm on the topmost panel if that makes sense.

Also if you could take some from inside the car showing how they wrapped the bow and also the front stays. I want to see how tightly they did it and also which direction it was wrapped and how it was trimmed off. Any help would be fantastic otherwise I am shooting blind.

andyburns · « **Reply #1571 on:** March 24, 2015, 08:47:52 »

Have started thinking about getting the car road legal while i wait for the soft top parts. Before i drive it out of the road i need to insure it. How much do i insure it for. I am thinking about 90k nzd or around 70k usd. What sort of values is everyone else insuring for.

mmizesko · « **Reply #1572 on:** March 24, 2015, 10:52:29 »

Andy,

Insurance is tricky here in the States. Any guaranteed value policy is going to have restrictions on mileage (1,000 - 2,000 miles per year, I think) which is about 5,000 miles less than I drive my 1970 280SL. Almost every "normal" auto insurance policy is an Actual Cash Value policy, which means if the car is in an accident, every part will be covered, subject to a deductible per event, at replacement cost, which is most often an ebay price, or a mercedes dealer price, whichever less. If the accident is serious, they will research the market value of the car by using available valuation resources. Thus, I have countless dated pictures of my car, and a recent appraisal. (mine is a year old for about $60k USD). I have spent hours on the phone with the claims folks at the Allstate Home Office who have shared their methodology and I am comfortable with my decision. I did have a fender bender with my car and broke a headlight door (just the plastic) I got a check for $1,423.00 (and I have my own stockpile of AJ Headlight doors).

For my car to sustain $60k of damage, I probably won't be around to worry about fixing it. It is unlikely that the car will ever be "totalled" and the repairs would always be made to get it back on the road. If stolen, my appraisal and Hagerty/Hemmings valuations should suffice. And I can drive the car anywhere I want, for as long as I want.

As the 4th vehicle on my auto policy, I pay about $230 USD per 6 months, with no restrictions, $2m of liability, a $500 collision deductible, and a $0 comp deductible. So, I guess you have to decide how much you want to drive this beautiful car.

Hope this helps.

Mike Mizesko

114015 · « **Reply #1573 on:** March 24, 2015, 21:46:23 »

Quote

Achim, I would very much appreciate if you could take a few quick snaps of your roof up

Andy,

Yes, I will do so.
Getting a few pics this upcoming weekend and forward them to you.

Thanks a lot,
Achim

andyburns · « **Reply #1574 on:** March 26, 2015, 02:23:00 »

Thank Achim, those photos will be massively helpful to my cause. Crank your camera up to the highest resolution so I can zoom right in on the detail.

Today is another major milestone ticked off. The car is now fully road legal. I got it insured yesterday and this morning it flew through a warrant of fitness. Also slapped four months of registration on the old girl. The registration system in New Zealand is just set to change in three months to a much cheaper annual rate so everyone over here is just getting the bare minimum of coverage under the old system until the new kicks in. Even under the old expensive system its dirt cheap over here with an exemption for older classic and vintage cars. Anything over 40 years is only about 80 dollars US a year. A warrant of fitness costs around 20 usd and has to be renewed every six months.

The guys at the testing station were all over the car. What should have taken 15 minutes ended up at about 30-40 after they had all had a chance to look and talk to me about the car. Very different to what they normally deal with so the interest level was quite high. A couple of them threw me their mobile phones and asked to have photos taken sitting in the drivers seat. Didn't really want greasy mechanics boots all over my new square weave carpet but I obliged non the less.

Fantastic feeling to have it all road legal though. I took it for a decent run and its going like a charm. I have a strange clunk directly under the driver seat when I go over potholes. I think it may be the exhaust hitting the body. But on a smooth road the entire car purrs and is very smooth and silent. I think all the replacement rubber suspension components has made a huge difference to the way it drives. Guess its close to how it was when it left the factory.

The further I drive it the more settled it seems to become. Quite a noticeable difference.

Cant wait to use it. Feels very strange to be able to drive it after it being more or less a static display item for so long. Also just a bit unhappy that we are at the very end of the sunny top down season and I don't have any form of roof currently. I am desperately hoping the soft top works out and doesn't take an eternity to fit correctly.

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Author Topic: Restoration Difficulty Level (Read 946944 times)