Author Topic: Restoration Difficulty Level  (Read 942816 times)

Rolf-Dieter ✝︎

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #300 on: November 30, 2013, 01:24:43 »
Hello Andy,

A nice model you have there … I tryed to get the same size, however, they did not have it in my colour so I settled for the smaller one with the Pagoda roof.

I see your project is moving right along … great stuff. I know you have many followers … I'm just one of them.

Nice work! I can only imagine how it will feel once you are done and take your first spin :)
DD 2011 SL 63 AMG and my 69 Pagoda 280 SL

andyburns

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #301 on: December 01, 2013, 06:13:04 »
Have been searching all afternoon for two small metal brackets that secure the air blower vents.  I think they have gone missing at the electroplaters.  Very simple part stopping me from putting back the dash in my tracks.  I have been on the version of EPC I have and cant find the part.  Does anyone know what the part number is so I can see if I can order some more.  If anyone has some second hand ones I would love to here as well.  Otherwise I will have to manufacture some which will be fiddly getting all the length correct and welding the captive nut to the thin plate.

Andy Burns, Auckland New Zealand
1963 230sl
1967 250s w108
1969 BMW 2002
2007 Mitsubishi i car

andyburns

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #302 on: December 08, 2013, 08:46:23 »
Installed the heater core today.  Finished off the refurbishment of the core with the final gluing of the sealing foam and also the installation of the valve.  Used lots of plumbers grease to ease the valve body in.  It was initially very tight so I gently sat and operated it for 20 minutes or so which made a big difference.  Last thing I want is broken levers.  Also managed to find another set of the lost brackets so bead blasted those and delivered to the platers.  Fingers crossed the majority of it will go back this week.  Have landed a new job (yes I will be paying my subs as soon as I get my first pay packet) so not as much time this week to work on the old girl.  Will have to work during the evening to gain any traction for the next couple of months. 

Will post some more close ups of the refit if anyone is interested.

Have also been working on my under dash refit sequence.  Am fairly certain I have it correct so far.  I have already made a few mistakes and had to take things out due to be sequence so hope I can help anyone else tackling this job. 

 
Andy Burns, Auckland New Zealand
1963 230sl
1967 250s w108
1969 BMW 2002
2007 Mitsubishi i car

Cees Klumper

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #303 on: December 08, 2013, 13:24:36 »
Congratulations on the new job!
Cees Klumper
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mnahon

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #304 on: December 08, 2013, 18:38:37 »
Yes, Andy, that's great news on the job; apart from the fact that progress on the car will be slower now.

I have a question on an item that you posted on a while back: the bitumen mats on the floor. You had mentioned you planning on installing those, for the sake of sticking close to original.

On my car, I've just stripped down the driver side floor and removed the old bitumen and cleaned up what rust there was (it was in remarkably good shape, apart from the very front edge where it had rusted moderately due to years of leakage. I'm now trying to figure out how best to recover it. I ordered a bitumen mat from SLS and it's turning out harder than I thought to install it; I'm using a propane torch.

Can you give me some pointers on how you did yours? Also, I think the key to these things is a good bond between the metal and the mat, so that water will never reach the metal even if it manages to get into the floor compartment. Any thoughts you have on this would be helpful.

Thanks,

Meyer Nahon
Montreal, Canada
1968 MB 280SL Auto Euro LHD Silver
2021 Tesla Model 3

andyburns

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #305 on: December 08, 2013, 19:04:30 »
Hi Meyer,

The stuff is a real pain to put in.  The most important aspect is to make sure the mating surfaces are absolutley clean.  If they are not the matt will just pull away and not do its job.  I would recommend that you use a solvent to get off every trace of the old bitumen and leave a smooth even surface.  I would also recommend that while your at it you take the opportunity to further protect the floor pan.  The factory protection was inadequate with in my cars case only a very thin coat of body color over the sheet metal protection.   In my view not enough and probably the reason these cars all rusted so badly in this area if any moisture gets in.  It will take you a couple of hours to sand the area back with 150 grit and paint on some really good rust prohibitor.  Make sure if you do this you pay extra attention to the joints.

In regards to the matting the key is to get a good template going.  Dont get impatient or you will end up with either a mess or wasted mat.  Once you stick it down if you have to pull it back up, for any reason, it looses quite a bit of its stick.  So careful placment is the key.  I also didn't pull off all the backing but only a small section.  Then when you have it lined up and the first piece in place pull the backing from behind and stick it lightly as you go.

Once its in the correct location and your happy with it I used a heat gun and a small wooden roller.  The latter is crucial for it sticking long term.  I spent quite a while on each sheet going over and over with the roller.  I didn't find the heat gun that usefull to be honest.   I really only made use of it over the transmission tunnel where the shape got really funky.   On the flat floor pan the roller and your fingers should be fine.

Be carful with the heat gun if you do decide to use it as it doesn't take much to turn the bitumen to mush and you end up with a mess.

Another trick I used on the floor pan was to give it a quick spray with Ados xtra strong F2.  Especially if your floor pan isn't perfect.  Let it tack off and then put down the matt.  It really gives the bond a much better chance.

Andy Burns, Auckland New Zealand
1963 230sl
1967 250s w108
1969 BMW 2002
2007 Mitsubishi i car

Dave H

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #306 on: December 08, 2013, 21:11:41 »
Hi Andy

I'm on a train heading up to Edinburgh and to pass the time I have just read all
13 pages of your thread.
Fantastic work equal to anything produced by motoring Investments and shows what's achievable ....
I bet your glad to see the back of that blast cabinet...I also spent a week in front
Of one of them breathing powdered glass dust for hours on end....horrid horrid work !!
The air vent repairs are fantastic... Keep the pictures and the commentary  comeing.

Dave
« Last Edit: December 08, 2013, 21:19:37 by Dave H »
Mercedes 250SL    1967
Mercedes 250SLK  2014
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Fiat 500

andyburns

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #307 on: December 09, 2013, 00:29:52 »
Cheers Dave,   thanks for your kinds words.  I would never however claim that my resto is up to the same standard as the pros.  Just a back yard tinkerer really.  I will be over the moon if nothing major falls off when I take it for its first test ride.   ;)
« Last Edit: December 09, 2013, 00:35:50 by andyburns »
Andy Burns, Auckland New Zealand
1963 230sl
1967 250s w108
1969 BMW 2002
2007 Mitsubishi i car

mnahon

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #308 on: December 09, 2013, 00:45:46 »
Thanks for your quick response Andy. After reading it, I realized that the bitumen mat you used was quite different from what I have. There's no backing on mine and no sticky surface to it. The bitumen is also mixed with some kind of fibers and is quite resistant to heat. With a propane torch, it gets gets soft but does not melt into a near-liquid (like the original stuff did when I removed it with a torch). It's not clear whether this new mat was intended to be glued on or stuck on by heat. I think it's the latter, but I've written to SLS to find out for sure, and I'll figure out what to do then.

I did spend quite a bit of time cleaning up whatever rust was there and putting on some rust-inhibiting paint, so I think it's well protected.  I also expect that the next 50 years will also be much easier on the car than the past 50. No more wet carpets, at least while I have it.
Meyer Nahon
Montreal, Canada
1968 MB 280SL Auto Euro LHD Silver
2021 Tesla Model 3

andyburns

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #309 on: December 09, 2013, 00:58:42 »
Hi Meyer,

I am interested to know if what you have taken off the floor is the same material that SLS provided you.  I took samples and did quite a bit of research to replace with very similar products.  The floor pan was a solid bitumen mat around 3mm thick with a very thin plastic skin.  It has a pattern pressed into it.  Up the firewall mine had a different product which I believe was identical to the material used to produce the firewall pad.  This material was around 8mm thick and as you describe has an almost padding or wadding structure.   It had the same diamond pattern pressed into it as the firewall pad.  I am wondering if it all changed over time as the factory chopped and changed the materials used to improve various aspects of the car.   I took several closeups of my floor pan before I pulled all the material off.   Am happy to post pics if it will help.

If you dont care about originality I wouldn't use any of this material at all and go for a modern high performance lightweight product like fatmat or dynamat.  Much easier to put in and much better heat and sound inhibiting properties than any factory type product.  I have thought about this quite a bit and think I will glue the fatmat to the back of the carpet so I dont trash all the nice tidy work I have done on the floor pan.  At the end of the day its easier to replace the carpet than the floor pan material.  This seem to be a tactic that Mercedes adopted in the W108 cars I have pulled apart.  The carpet have a moudled sound deadining material glued  to the carpet.  Its incredibly thick at around 15-20mm.  I guess the S class had to be much quieter given its luxury status.  Can post some pics of this if its of interest to you as well.

Cheers

Andy
Andy Burns, Auckland New Zealand
1963 230sl
1967 250s w108
1969 BMW 2002
2007 Mitsubishi i car

mnahon

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #310 on: December 09, 2013, 14:27:59 »
Hi Andy,

Your description of the original materials is exactly what I removed from my car; both the bitumen on the floorboard and the pad on the footwell firewall area. Both were damaged by water infiltration over the years. There was some rust, but it was not terrible, compared to other pictures I've seen in this forum.

The SLS replacement pads are not the same. For the floorboard bitumen, the replacement is about half the original thickness. As I mentioned, it's not pure bitumen; it has some fibers mixed in. It's also more heat resistant. It doesn't liquify like the original did. Rather, if you put too much heat to it, the fibers ignite. I received a response from SLS. Their intent is that you mold it into shape by heating it, and then you glue it on, I guess with your own glue.

Based on all this, and what you've said, my present plan is to apply the SLS pad as they suggest, but then use Dynamax on top of that. I think the SLS pad with glue will do a better job of keeping water off the floorboard, if water ever does get in there.

On a separate issue, I was thinking about your car. I am curious: when you're done, are you planning to drive it or sell it? I ask because in your shoes, after having spent so much time getting everything just right, I'd have a hard time driving it. I think if I wanted to drive one, I'd sell it and then use half the money to get a good driver.
Meyer Nahon
Montreal, Canada
1968 MB 280SL Auto Euro LHD Silver
2021 Tesla Model 3

andyburns

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #311 on: December 09, 2013, 15:33:09 »
Hi Meyer, another tip I forgot to mention to you is that you should put down the floor board material first and then apply the firewall pads so they overlap the floor mat.  Reason being that if water does run down the firewall, and really this is the only place it does come from, then instead of dribbling down and running into the seam and under the floor mat, it will be directed onto the top of the floor mat.  The matting really works against you in terms of rust protection if water can get under the mat.  It has a waterproof top membrane so will retain the water further causing you issues with rust.  Likewise with the fiber type mats you could run into issues if the material acts like a sponge. In the latter 108's they used closed cell foam to overcome the problem.  I think it is inevitable that you will get further leaks in the cabin. Before I pulled mine apart I was getting water in even when washing the car.  Its so hard to know where the water comes from sometimes that this type of rust prevention is actually much more cost effective that trying to track down the leaks.  I think a major contributor to the leaking problem is often worn or deteriorated rubber which is often a nightmare to replace.  Things like the rubber seals under the window wiper spindle nuts or all the rest of the firewall grommets.  Its not until you pull them out that your realize how poked they are! 
Andy Burns, Auckland New Zealand
1963 230sl
1967 250s w108
1969 BMW 2002
2007 Mitsubishi i car

mnahon

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #312 on: December 09, 2013, 16:45:04 »
Thanks Andy, I had already come to this strategy for configuration of the mats; and I agree completely with it. In the original arrangement, this is exactly how the water ended up getting under the floor mat and causing damage. And yes, I typically got water in during car washes, not so much from driving in the rain. Luckily, the new firewall pad is a bit longer and will direct water onto the top of the floor mat. I'm pretty sure that between the new arrangement and being more careful when the car gets wet, that I can pretty much ensure that the floor boards will never see water.
Meyer Nahon
Montreal, Canada
1968 MB 280SL Auto Euro LHD Silver
2021 Tesla Model 3

andyburns

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #313 on: December 10, 2013, 02:19:15 »
Hi Meyer, I have been pondering you question all day regarding the use of the car after I finish it.  I think I will keep it but at the end of the day everything has a price tag.  I don't think the car would ever command a high price as it wasn't professionally restored.  I think reputation is king.  Prospective buyers would likely be put off by a back yard restoration but I am picking if I keep it long enough they may well increase in price so significantly that a new buyer may well have it restored to a higher level and pay a decent amount for a good base.   I have a few car so hopefully I will get to keep it and take it out on special occasions.  I did the same level of restoration to one of my W108's a few years back ( www.flickr.com/andyburnsnz ) and have only driven it about 200km in the past three years.  Quite ridiculous really.  I tried selling this but couldn't even get 18kUS for it so just decided to keep it as a piece of art in my driveway.    This gave rise to my theory about amateur restoration.  Quite a few tire kickers all trying to drive the price down with the fact it wasn't done professionally.  Perhaps my kids will thank me for my efforts in 30 years time when they are worth a small fortune.
Andy Burns, Auckland New Zealand
1963 230sl
1967 250s w108
1969 BMW 2002
2007 Mitsubishi i car

mnahon

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #314 on: December 10, 2013, 04:25:50 »
Andy, I find what you say surprising, but plausible. I'll let others who are more knowledgeable than I am comment on your theory of reputation being king. I would have thought that there are knowledgeable potential buyers would be able to judge the quality of restoration for themselves. Also, I think anyone on this newsgroup who has followed your progress would say that what you don't have in name, you well make up for in time, effort and meticulous attention to detail.

If what you say is correct, you could consider trying to get the car sold on consignment by a high-end Mercedes dealer to whom you could give a percentage. Possibly their name would allow you to sell the car for a much higher price, making the commission acceptable.

One of the reasons I mention this is that, when I was looking for my Pagoda, 20 years ago, I initially came across it at a Mercedes dealer. I quite liked it and was considering buying it, but felt they were asking a bit much. So I kept looking. A few weeks later I saw a private ad and, when I went to see the car, it turned out to be the same car, for about 20% lower asking price. I did not let on I had previously seen it, and on talking to the seller, I eventually understood that he had had the car with the dealer on consignment. Of course, I was very happy to have the opportunity to buy the car for a more reasonable price.

I could see the psychology of getting the car sold by a reputable dealer could make an important difference if the pool of buyers is less knowledgeable, and the item in question is a car in pristine condition.

Anyhow, my suggestion is that, when the time comes, you try to sell it; see what you might get; and then decide whether it's worth it.
Meyer Nahon
Montreal, Canada
1968 MB 280SL Auto Euro LHD Silver
2021 Tesla Model 3

andyburns

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #315 on: December 10, 2013, 06:44:10 »
Meyer,  I did try selling my 108 on the international market.   I advertised it on Ebay UK and also a couple of classic car magazines.  I had quite a bit of interest, including several phone call at 2am in the morning, but no takers.  I also considered putting it to auction here in Auckland but ended up selling the bmw2002.  To tell the truth I would dearly love to build a really big barn and keep them all.  I got pretty close to that dream a couple of years back but found myself without work which very quickly threw a bucket of ice cold water over that good idea.  It is very very hard seeing these beauties roll off down the drive with another owner after spending thousands of hours on them.... especially galling when you average out your time and your working for less than the minimum wage!  The gold W108 in the photos I believe is very special.  It has absolutely no rust and has 99% original fitments down to the carpet it came out of the factory with which still smells new.  In comparison my 113 is an old pig that has been cut and stitched in about every nook and cranny you choose to look.  It has been a very hard and long road to get it to this point and unless I got a lot of money I cant see the point in relinquishing it.  At the same time I just don't think a discerning buyer who does due diligence on it will be fooled into thinking anything other than it is a good home restoration.   I have parked my W108 up against top level restoration and until you have that type of benchmark it is easy to over estimate what you have achieved.  I do very much appreciate your kind words though.  Its guys like you that keep my spirits up!  Restoration at home can be a very lonely and demoralizing activity. 
Andy Burns, Auckland New Zealand
1963 230sl
1967 250s w108
1969 BMW 2002
2007 Mitsubishi i car

Bonnyboy

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #316 on: December 10, 2013, 16:52:45 »
Geez Andy,  I hope you are restoring your car cause you want to drive it.   Selling is just an ending so don't expect much.   The restoration shops generally experience "economies of scale" with proper tools, experience and absolutley amazing know how. 

Having restorected a couple MGBs, a couple BMW 2002s and several hondas I quickly realized that restoring a car as a business and restoring it to have fun in is miles apart.  I decided not to restore my 280sl and instead took the position to resurect it - stitching metal here and there, cleaning, fixing, pondering, measuring over and over, and replacing.  Its all fun becasue I realize that my car was bought by my father 25 yeras ago as a fully restored California car.   The price paid was for a restored car but there was chicken wire and newspaper holding bondo in shape, there were wood screws drilled into the sheet metal because the proper bolts were busted off, there was clumps of bondo made to replicate sheetmetal - and that was from a professional restoration????

All of the issues have been fixed by myself using countless drills, taps, easy outs, couple bare sheets of galvanized sheet metal and 2 small rolls of welding wire.  The floors and sills are water tight, the doors don't pop open in corners anymore, the gaps are as good as I can get, the wiring harnesses in the dash are back to stock and the various holes around the car are covered up with new metal stitched in place.   

I did a calculation and for purely entertainment purposes as compared to say going to see a movie, I am farther ahead with 200 hours playing with my car rather than sitting and watching 100 movies with buttered popcorn (say $25.00 each time) at $2500.  My time is free so as long as my car doesn't go down in value I am at least $2,500 and several inches around my waistline ahead.

...And driving in the early morning with the top down with a warm breeze coming in off the ocean - Thats priceless.   


 
Ian
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andyburns

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #317 on: December 10, 2013, 17:55:29 »
Hi Ian, 

The reasons for restoring it started off wanting to drive it.  I honestly did not expect that it would consume so much time and money.  As a result some of the 'gloss' has been taken off the project.  I may well feel completly different after the car is finished but while your in the middle of dozens of mucky problems you often cant see the light through the woods.  I am only just beginning to enjoy the project. 

Turning that corner where you start to put parts back on the car is a breath of fresh air but I still have quite a few challenges to get it back on the road.  The interior is terrifying me at the moment.  The boxes of raw leather hides have just turned up in the last couple of days and I havn't even started on the engine yet.  The hours now are hovering at around 1700 and I am certain that even the interior refit will push to around 2k to the point where I am happy. 

I am certain that I will drive her when all is done and dusted.
Andy Burns, Auckland New Zealand
1963 230sl
1967 250s w108
1969 BMW 2002
2007 Mitsubishi i car

mnahon

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #318 on: December 10, 2013, 20:47:20 »
Andy, I have to echo Bonnyboy's sentiment. I didn't want to impose too much my own views, but I agree that the driving is the part that makes all the fixing worthwhile. In my own case, I've studiously avoided getting too carried away with perfection, because I thought I would then be reluctant to drive. I really enjoy working on the car; but I also really enjoy driving it. I don't think I'd be able to really enjoy one without the other.

As for my earlier suggestion that you sell this one, pocket half the money, and get yourself a driver that you wouldn't be afraid to drive, it was motivated by the sense that you might end up being afraid to drive this one. If you're brave enough, as Bonnyboy advocates, then by all means, drive this one. But one way or the other, it would be a shame to have done all this work and not end up driving.
Meyer Nahon
Montreal, Canada
1968 MB 280SL Auto Euro LHD Silver
2021 Tesla Model 3

Garry

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #319 on: December 10, 2013, 21:33:33 »
Andy,

I have seen many cars that were done "professionally" that I would not touch.  I think the car at the end of the restoration speaks for its self. Does not have to be perfect.  Now I am doing my second one, with the first Pagoda (which came from Scotland via NZ) was not done to sell but I made a decision that the second one I had was the keeper and the first one went about two years ago to help pay for the fix of the second after working on it for about 6 years..  I learnt a lot of lessons from that first car.

I also totally agree that the joy will be in the end driving it.  I am sure it will not disappoint you.  You have got the heater core back, that is the start of getting it all back together and from what I have seen on your posts so far you are way past half way and i actually think the interior is the easier part. ;)

Garry
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andyburns

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #320 on: December 10, 2013, 21:43:41 »
Time will tell.  

I aggree with you both about having a car that your not scared to drive.  My BMW2002tii was by far my most loved vehicle ever.  Took it out in any condition, picked the kids up with it, did the shopping in it and then drove it to occassional track days.  It was however a different type of car.  More one that was meant for the common man.  It was somehow meant to be race rallied and rolled.  The pagoda on the other hand was a expensive, high end, luxury cruiser from day one.  As such the 2002 in my mind lends itself to having more patina than the pagoda.   People who in general seem more forgiving if you know what I mean.

Come back and check out this thread in a years time and see where the journey take me.  I guarnatee you all that I will be driving it.  After this restoration I have promisied my wife that I am going to take a break for at least 5 years.  I have been continually restoring for the past 8 years.  This is the third car.  I dont honestly know why I do it.  The motivation is more like the challenge of a giant gigsaw puzzle than actually using the cars when they are finished.  

I also view these as works of art more than a functional object.   I get probably more enjoyment wandering into the garage and just looking and appreciating them.   I often go and just admire the curves or even things as mundane as the door catches which give rise to the trade mark mercedes thunk.  I compare like for like designs with my modern cars and still marvel at how well they were put together.  The meaterial they used and how well they have aged.  MB tex is my favorite example of this.  Clean it up and it could have just been driven out of the factory.   Genius.   The devil is in the detail as they say.  

The OCD side of me has also come out.   Snow ball effect after you start tarting stuff up. Its hard to draw the line on where to stop.  If you have a prepensity for perfection its a very difficult thing to start bolting old tatty looking gear back onto another pristine surface.  

 I have in hidsight really enjoyed studing how the designers put these cars together. Effectively reverse engineering the car has been by far the most enlightening part of the journey.  I guess the attraction is just a persuit of knowledge type of scenario.  What good the knowledge is to me and what I might use it for in the future is a different matter.

Human motivation is a complicated topic. ... we are all different.
Andy Burns, Auckland New Zealand
1963 230sl
1967 250s w108
1969 BMW 2002
2007 Mitsubishi i car

andyburns

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #321 on: December 10, 2013, 21:53:47 »
Have been very lazy lately with my updates sorry guys.  I have actually almost finished the under dash assembly, radiator element, heater box, side vents, central vent flaps, cables, loom clamps, all new firewall seals.  Been working after I get home from work.  To shattered at the end of the day to take photos. 

I did take a video of it all and actually put it to some xmas music but havn't found a way of putting it up yet.  Limited to 4Mb download and my movie is about 100.  Might upload it to youtube if I get time.

Andy Burns, Auckland New Zealand
1963 230sl
1967 250s w108
1969 BMW 2002
2007 Mitsubishi i car

getsmart

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #322 on: December 11, 2013, 03:44:45 »
Hi Andy geeze I enjoy reading your thread ! That alone is priceless for me !
If you want you can pm me and I'll get you to upload your video to my dropbox and then I'll try it reduce it for you for loading up here....
alternatively using windows movie maker save it for a portable device whereby it will shrink it right down....

Rgds, joe
« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 04:23:13 by getsmart »
Finding the red car
1964 230sl Restoration Project

andyburns

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #323 on: December 11, 2013, 04:27:55 »
Cheers Joe,  really appreciate it.  

On a more amusing topic we have just replaced our beautiful old golden retriever who died of old age some months back.  When selecting the new puppy of course the pagoda had to be factored into things.  I never told my wife of this intention rather guided her toward the same end goal.  1) Had to be German of course 2) Had to be small enough to fit nicely on the kinder seat 3) Most importantly had to match the color scheme of the car.

I deliberated for quite a few weeks on these very important points and after many nights of research settled on what we picked up on the weekend!  I found perfection in our new miniature schnauzer.  Salt and pepper color and once clipped will lighten to a wonderful silvery gray hue.  I shouldn't really use the word perfection.  If the breeder had described the color as MB180 then I might have been able to make that claim.

« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 05:19:05 by andyburns »
Andy Burns, Auckland New Zealand
1963 230sl
1967 250s w108
1969 BMW 2002
2007 Mitsubishi i car

andyburns

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #324 on: December 11, 2013, 05:34:11 »
My Pagoda xmas video update  in now uploaded. To view just click this  link http://youtu.be/h_n6ta0GFGY

Hope you guys enjoy it.  A bit embarrassed about my other project vids.  Very geeky but worth a laugh!

Happy Xmas 113 Org !
« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 05:39:30 by andyburns »
Andy Burns, Auckland New Zealand
1963 230sl
1967 250s w108
1969 BMW 2002
2007 Mitsubishi i car